KeralaBrethren.net
New User? Register Today!
Registered Users, LOGIN
What we believe (Eng) What we believe (Mal) About Us Contact Us
Forums Home General Forum Youth Forum Sisters Forum Archives (2005-2007) Archives (2001-2004)
Listing of Brides Listing of Grooms
Assemblies in Kerala Evangelists in India Instituitions in India
Christian Albums Christian Songs
Audio Sermons Bible Wallpapers Brethren Links KB History (Eng) KB History (Mal)

K E R A L A  B R E T H R E N
General Forum

Forums Home ::
This Message Forum is to discuss spiritual topics only. Please avoid personal or assembly matters.
Let us use this facility for our spiritual enrichment and for bringing glory to our Lord almighty.
Webmasters reserve the right to delete any topic or posting partly or completely from this forum.
View Topics :: :: Post new topic


Keralabrethren.net: General Forum: Jesus Christ became POOR to make us RICH.

Post Reply
Go to bottom of the page

# 02431 :  Jesus Christ became POOR to make us RICH.

 

The other day I was playing an on-line ‘checkers’ game. There [on-line] we get a live opponent from somewhere in the world. I would not know who that person is or which part of the world he or she is from. The computer selects a player randomly. As I started playing against this particular opponent, he [she] made a mistake and I capitalized on it and made a triple jump. Such a play at the initial stage would put one player in command because he would at least get ahead by two pieces. The outcome is almost predictable from then on, because it would be hard to come back from such disadvantageous position.  
As soon as the opponent realized the mistake, he offered a ‘draw’ to me; which usually is reserved for towards the end of the game when the pieces are equal and both players realize that neither one has a clear advantage over the other. Once accepting the offer that game is considered a ‘draw.’ In this case, I had a clear advantage and it is just a matter of some more moves and all pieces of my opponent will be captured, leading me to a clear victory. As an initial reflective move of my brain, I rejected the draw offer. I was thinking; yeah, right; he has no escape and how dare is he offering a draw?
We kept on playing and I kept on capturing his pieces and getting further ahead. By now I expanded to a four piece advantage. I realized that this opponent is at my mercy; he has no escape. A thought flashed through my mind connecting this situation to my situation before receiving God’s mercy. I was given total and unconditional pardon for my sins by God. I received mercy from God when I was just like my opponent, who has no way of escape.
I felt I should initiate the draw offer to my opponent and let him also receive ‘mercy;’ in this case just a silly game; nonetheless a reflection of God’s mercy that I had received. I sent him a draw offer. To my surprise, he rejected that offer. I felt that either he is upset that I did not accept it when he initiated the draw offer or he is now feeling that he does not want some stranger’s mercy. I made another move and his situation is getting dangerously close to a total collapse. I sent out one more offer. He rejected it. I made one more move and now there is only one more possible move for my opponent before he gets defeated. As a final attempt I sent out another ‘draw’ offer. He made his final move after rejecting my draw offer. He got defeated very convincingly.
This incident gave me a clearer picture of human reaction to God’ mercy! It could be the human pride that prevented my opponent from accepting my merciful gesture. Or he may have felt he does not deserve the ‘draw’ option. He may have felt perhaps he could somehow win on his own. Who would want to admit that he or she cannot do something to seize victory over defeat by doing something incredible?   
What God provided for mankind for salvation was not a ‘draw’ offer as I did. When Jesus Christ went to the cross He carried all the punishment for my sins. When He was killed on the cross, He died in place of me. Death and eternal separation from God is what I deserved, but Jesus Christ died in my place. It was as though I could offer to my opponent a chance to play with my winning pieces and I will play with his loosing pieces and accept defeat on his behalf. Even then my story, and the merciful gesture, fall way short of what Jesus Christ did by million times!
In 2 Cor. 8:9 we read; “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.” Compared to what Jesus Christ had offered here, no human can match anything remotely close to it.  
Before God, all men are like my opponent. Men & women have no escape because God declared it very emphatically in Romans 3: 10-18 & 23 that there is nothing good in them that would deserve them to be in heaven. Yet people struggle and resist God’s offer for pardon and invitation to spend eternity with Him on God’s term. They say they can do it on their own. Many would say that we need Jesus Christ as an aid, but we need to attain salvation by doing certain things. Gal. 3:21 says that Jesus Christ is our righteousness. Based on that and several other passages, I am completely righteous before God at the moment I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior. I will never be less righteous before God or more righteous. But I can be an obedient or disobedient Christian adding more blessings to my life here on earth and for the life to come; or wreck my Christian life and be a miserable person adding nothing to my rewards.
My opponent in the checkers game was given many chances to bring the game to a draw. But he rejected those repeatedly, resulting in losing the game. Many people hear the gospel and keep rejecting it because they are either too proud to admit their sinfulness and helplessness or they think they need to ‘work’ for their salvation. A full unconditional pardon for sins is something humans have a hard time accepting as the truth. But God grants mercy when we don’t deserve it. This is why we call the first four books of the NT as ‘gospels.’ Gospel is the ‘good news’ given to mankind from a loving God.  
For God so loved the world that He gave His only [unique] begotten son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16. Yes! The Bible says – they ‘have’ everlasting life – not that they would get it in the future. It is certainly given to those who believe in Jesus Christ for their forgiveness of sins. God made us rich by paying a hefty ransom; the very life of Jesus Christ! He became POOR while making us RICH.
Tom Johns                                                                                                                                       
P.S. God does not make us rich once and then poor; then again rich; then again poor; then hopefully at the end rich again. Once I am made rich I remain rich; once I am made righteous, I remain righteous, because Jesus Christ is the One who made me rich and righteous. All I needed to do was accept His loving offer. This is the good news or the gospel!  
Post by : tomj  View Profile    since : 24 Jan 2013


Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 6 Apr 2017 11:45:43 AM Close

Mr. Tom has said that people struggle and resist God's offer for pardon and invitation to spend eternity with Him on His term. Is this offer universal or specific/limited, and what is His term?

 

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 14 Apr 2017 5:25:01 AM Close

According to TULIP's Total Depravity, man in himself has no ability to accept God's offer for salvation and those who accept it  do so not in their own willingness, but with that of God imputed in them (forcefully?). Hence, if TULIP is the truth, it implies that God's offer is neither universal nor specific, but only a show. 

Mr. Tom's clarification required.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 17 Apr 2017 8:42:37 AM Close

Then what God’s term that Mr. Tom has mentioned for saving a person is absolutely nothing in view of TULIP study system. If God has chosen particular number of persons for salvation, it implies that God will not provide any terms for others to get saved. And those who are selected fulfill the term (believing in God) not with their own ability, God only make them believing (inherently they are forced to abide by the term). This all means that like God’s offer His term, according to TULIP is also bogus.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 18 Apr 2017 9:56:23 AM Close

KristianJude,

I don't think Tom Johns is active on this portal anymore. I presume in one of his earlier posts, he had given his email id. You may contact him on that.

I just saw these posts today and felt I need to ask three basic questions. Maybe the answers to these questions might broaden our perspective? I do not know.

1. What does it mean by "Salvation for all mankind" ( Titus 2:11)

2. If you have an understandable reasoning to the earlier question, how does free will work in the following context as per the following verse in Mathew 22:14

3. If you are clear on that as well. What is the need of predestination as per? Proverbs 6:14, Romans 8:28-30, Romans 11:12, 1 Corinthians 2:7 and Revelation 13:8

I know you wanted to Tom Johns to answer this. I have not answered any of these questions, just posed a conundrum to you to meditate. 

Regards,

Joe

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 23 Apr 2017 8:15:26 AM Close

Dear Jude,

Thank you for your response. Let me quote you first:

" If God has chosen a particular number of persons for salvation, it implies that God will not provide any terms for others to get saved. And those who are selected fulfill the term (believing in God) not with their own ability, God only make them believing (inherently they are forced to abide by the term). This all means that like God’s offer His term, according to TULIP is also bogus." 

Correct me if I am wrong. If you did write this.  Then my questions are relevant and ideally should be of interest ( not a compulsion though ). It would help you answer your questions that you posted to Tom Johns. Who again as I said, I think, is not active here anymore and I think you can email him separately.  He ended his post and rightly put it as such: "God does not make us rich once and then poor; then again rich; then again poor; then hopefully at the end rich again. Once I am made rich I remain rich; once I am made righteous, I remain righteous, because Jesus Christ is the One who made me rich and righteous. All I needed to do was accept His loving offer. This is the good news or the gospel!"

Regards,

Joe

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 25 Apr 2017 1:18:43 PM Close

Hello Jude,

I am not clear on the question you have posed.

  1. Are you asking me if I have a view/opinion on God's offer and his term
  2. Or, are you asking if I get to decide on what God's offer and his term is?

Please clarify which one is it.

Regards,

Joe

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 26 Apr 2017 8:18:30 PM Close

Hello everyone, 

After a period of time I checked this site and I see some activities on the thread I initiated. Not surprised to see Kristinjude still spreading false gospel. Perhaps I will be back to write some more. 

Tom Johns

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 27 Apr 2017 5:49:28 AM Close

Hello Jude,

My first note was a set of three questions to answer your questions. I am not aware of TULIP or any other floral theological arrangements that people adhere to. I think here, the scripture suffices. I do look at interpretations here and there. But that is more on the lines of I The 5:21. I am not obliged to them.  

The scripture deals in detail on the topic of confession. So are you trying to imply, if you don't confess, you will still be saved? I do not understand. Neither do I understand what do you mean by Tom Johns and his post diluting it. 

Tom Johns, hello and welcome back.

Regards,

Joe

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 27 Apr 2017 6:37:55 AM Close

Dear Jude,

I clearly stated I do not understand what you are trying to say.  What do mean by baseless? When you write a sentence like this: The offer is salvation and the term to receive it is one's professing his faith in God. Take your first note for discussion. I have made it clear that TULIP doctrinal system, Mr.Tom is following dilutes God's offer and term to be meaningless.

a. I don't read anywhere Tom Johns diluting anything.

b.I don't understand what do you mean by TULIP and you have written (According to TULIP's Total Depravity, man in himself has no ability to accept God's offer for salvation and those who accept it do so not in their own willingness, but with that of God imputed in them (forcefully?). Hence, if TULIP is the truth, it implies that God's offer is neither universal nor specific, but only a show.)

Clearly, if you read what you have written, you will understand why anyone will have a confusion. And what do you mean by TULIP is the truth? And what assumption is that you are basing or concluding it on? Where does any theology come in the context of the word of God? Is not The word of God the truth?

I shall end here and not take part in this.

Regards,

Joe

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 27 Apr 2017 7:20:20 PM Close

Kristenjude, 

could you summarize your questions once again and post it? So, I'd know what areas are you referring to. Thanks

Tom Johns

Joe. Thank you for the special welcome!

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 28 Apr 2017 9:15:22 AM Close

TJ,

This is your statement:  "people struggle and resist God’s offer for pardon and invitation to spend eternity with Him on God’s term"

Five point doctrinal teaching TULIP which you adhere to says that man has no ability in himself to accept God's offer and to abide His term. This means his struggling and resistance is not his own wilful act. And TULIP says that only a selected number of people  were made to abide by God's term and receive His offer. If my understanding of TULIP is correct, you may please reconcile  your statement with what I have written.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page

Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 28 Apr 2017 9:25:09 AM Close

The foot note (P.S) you have given at the end of your post also attracts my  attention. I will post my comment on it later.

Go to top of the page
Go to bottom of the page


Post reply Here

please login to continue..

Registered Users, Login below:

Username Password
Problem Login?

New User? Register Now

Forgot User Name or Password? Click Here

Go to top of the page

All times are GMT -5 Hours
Forums Home ::



HOME
Back to Top