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Keralabrethren.net: Youth Forum: dowry

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# 00048 :  dowry
like all other community brothren believers also very much greedy in case of dowry.is this good for believers???
Post by : samthadathil  View Profile    since : 20 Sep 2004


Reply by : grt   View Profile   Since : 29 Sep 2004 3:04:12 AM Close
Do u really need to ask that dear friend?

Dowry - without doubt is one of the evils that has managaed to thrive through the centuries.

What good can a system- that rips people's lives apart - do ?

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Reply by : betsy   View Profile   Since : 24 Oct 2004 7:05:11 AM Close
Any of our belevers can marry with out dowry???
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Reply by : jpdobcofjc   View Profile   Since : 6 Feb 2005 6:05:13 AM Close
It always amazes me when churches get desperate requests from evangelists who need money in order to pay for their daughter's dowry (lest their daughters remain as "old maids" forever). How can a groom's family demand money from the bride's family (who are solely working for the Lord and oftentimes penniless)? As supposed believers, how can we condone such a practice?? And from my (limited) understanding of the dowry system, isn't a "dowry" merely the daughter's inheritance and should be given to the newly wedded couple, not to the groom's family members???
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Reply by : tvarghese   View Profile   Since : 12 Feb 2005 1:45:57 AM Close
i'm new to this forum. in this forum i find two important questions.
1) samthadathil asked on 20/09/04 and 2) asked by betsy on 24/10/04 - none of these questions have been answered. I strongly doubt are these questions quite insignificant to brethren ?

If somebody asked a question reg. prophecy, christian life, etc. there would have been 100s of attacks and counter attacks - no doubt. Unattendance to this kind of practical questions shows clearly how brethern attitude is and where we are heading towards!. One should take it as a challenge to lead a practical life.
My answers to the two questions :-
1. It is not at all good for believers (testimony)
2. No PRACTICAL Christian (including brethren) can give / take dowry.

Those people taking / giving dowry are doing sin in sight of God as well as cheating the govt. More over it is a matter of testimony.

God bless.

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Reply by : lizageorge   View Profile   Since : 13 Feb 2005 3:21:52 PM Close
For sure, dowry has became a menace to our society especialy to Christians. I have two questions for those who give or take dowry.
1. to those who have daughters:
Have you became so tired and fed of your daughters that you have to pay some one an exorbitant amount to take her away from your homes?
2. to those who have sons:
Why are you trying to sell your sons to some girl's parents as in the 'kala (Ox)Chantha', and complain that he is so henpecked?.Heis theirs now and you have given up your 'right of ownership' as in any buyer-seller deal.
Our children are our assets for ever. whether a girl or boy my kids have equal place in my home. They are neither for sale or nor an encumberance.
God has given them to us to nurture them in love and god's ways. That is how we make them valuable. not by the riches we made by working 16-24 hrs /day and overtime, not by never seeing them at all during their young years when we are too busy trying to make us a palce in the "who has the biggest bank account?" competition.
Hope our brethren and sisters will for 0nce open their eyes and see the damage we are doing to our next generation by our competitive minds.
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Reply by : nebu   View Profile   Since : 16 Feb 2005 4:05:27 AM Close
sam

i think your query in itself has a simple answer!
If the brethrens (now Brethren believers) have turned to be a community/denomin; why to wonder? they'll go only as a comm/denomin.

If you are to live a CHRISTIAN the more payable you are in these aspects.
We can also notice this has a vital role in bringing our children to the verge of 'd-i-v-o-r-c-e'

for Liza's info; the 'KaalaChantha' that yu well exposed is on its way to stage the Kaalas and Pashus as 'mainstreams', 'tributries', 'firstgen', 'fourthgen', 'malabarean', and so on.

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Reply by : nebu   View Profile   Since : 16 Feb 2005 4:12:31 AM Close
"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe. "
-Augustine


In Christ, Nebu

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Reply by : hhhd   View Profile   Since : 17 Feb 2005 11:54:17 AM Close
I was just wondering if this is a wide spread practice among Brethren believers? I'd like to know about that.
I would also like to know the history of "Dowry" in Brethren movement in India. Did our early believers give and take dowry?
Thanks,
HD
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Reply by : rubyjoy   View Profile   Since : 17 Feb 2005 1:54:43 PM Close
I am against dowry in brethren assemblies. Its wrong.As we see Abraham sent all wealth and precious things for Issac's wife and brought her. not that she brought from her house.

Then there wont be any difference with our marriages and Gentiles marriages.

Warm regards
RJ

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Reply by : nebu   View Profile   Since : 19 Feb 2005 7:06:46 AM Close
hd, RJ and all:
I believe that when a Christian doesn’t prioritize cultural hedges, he will treat his children the same. I mean to say that there is a general fad in our society (keral) about marrying a girl to a boy is ‘sending’, ‘packing’, a girl as if she is no longer even to the suburbs. For this we use the term in Malayalam ‘Avalae Kettichayachu or KettichuVITTU’. Whatever the parents wishes to give their children, if it is equal to them irrespective of their sex, the sense of paying dowry and closing a chapter in life would never transpire. Above all, the resources God has invested in anyone would be on the outlay of their accountability in being a right steward. How can the name of the LORD be glorified in an uneven partition to an equally receptive entity? If God doesn’t show variance in giving children as gifts we should also be invariant in our gifts to them ‘coz our gifts are granted by our Lord.
When Psalmist says children are an inheritance, the disception of ‘giving a girl’ and ‘taking from a boy’ is canalizing God’s plan of creation and its instinct.


:0 yezz 'dowry' should be given to our children (not for 'sending' a girl, but even when 'taking a boy')

In Christ Nebu MD

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Reply by : rajan   View Profile   Since : 8 Mar 2005 6:59:11 AM Close
Money is very necessary.But we have to stop the compulsory tendacy of dowary.
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Reply by : george9   View Profile   Since : 17 Mar 2006 9:15:42 AM Close
I just come upon this website, & with a lot of interest went thru the different forums.

So many people debating tooth & nail on different topics. I was all the more happy when I saw the topic "dowry".

I always believed the brethern(I am one myself)were a set of hypocritical people never bothered about anything practical in life. This particular column just proved my belief !

Where are all our learned brothers & sisters who were qouting verses & all the gyan in their heads left, right & thru the centre????

Just y arent u able to comment here ???? Is it that u have forgotten all ur verses ????

Where has the self proclaimed first, second, third & fourth generation Brethern leadership gone????

Well the fifth generation Brethern dont need leaders like you ! !

We still are in the brethern group beacuse we believe in what the Bible teaches & there still are there among us a few good men & women who live quite & examplary lives & lead us on. How happy I was to see that none of them are in the list of brethern leaders in the write up of Dr.Johnson Philip.

George

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Reply by : Varghese   View Profile   Since : 17 Mar 2006 2:17:19 PM Close
Heb 11:32-39 talks about unknown believers who may not be named in the Hall of Faith but are numbered with those who are named. They obtained a good testimony thru faith. In today’s times also, fame & pulpit cannot be equated with faith & godliness always. Some of the greatest examples of godliness could be those who we have quickly glanced but were not recognizable!

I could sense frustration in the tone of Bro. George’s writing. Disappointment is sure to arise when we fail to see practical lives aligned with godly teaching. Hypocrisy could be in us too and so, let us take time to examine ourselves lest we be disqualified!

If we desire a Christian marriage to start with God, secondary factors (name, fame, family name, dowry etc) must never be the premise. Sadly to say, such are talked about in secret but openly announced (in some KB weddings) that God’s will was the deciding factor.

If two people are totally sure of God’s will, unconditionally subject to God’s choice, marry based on Scripture trusting in God fully for their needs (Mathew 6:25-34), what a great marriage that will be!

God Bless!

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Reply by : etoile   View Profile   Since : 17 Mar 2006 2:34:42 PM Close
i'm not indian, im scandinavian and live in the united states, but i do understand dowry. i think that the brides family should not have to pay a dowry to the grooms family because the bride should be seen as the blessing that the grooms family is recieving
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Reply by : sincy_varghese   View Profile   Since : 19 Mar 2006 5:02:56 AM Close
Dowry is one of the most despicable practices of the Christians of Kerala. When I became born-again I thought that all pentecostals and brethrens (the so called evangelicals) would be leading or at least striving to lead christian lives free of covetousness and I was and still am sadly disillusioned. I have found two types of covetous people:
1. The groom's parents (especially mother?) who want to put up their son for sale to the highest bidder(includes the girls looks, capacity to earn in future and current assets)
2. The bride's parents (especially the father?) who wants to send their daughter to possibly the most affluent house (and if possible get a free marriage).

I find no difference between these two group of people.

I am married with a young daughter. As a father I want to send my daughter out, not with a rich man, but with a God-fearing man. In the process if I have some money I want to give a fair share of money to my daughter for her and her husband to set up a house when they are married. So if I have a son and daughter I would give 40% to my daughter and 60% to my son(since he will be taking care of my expenses).
If I have 2 daughters I will split 40% each and keep the rest 20% for mine and my spouse's expenses. Anyway these are my plans, but the idea should be to be able to give a fair share to all of yoyr children. For me dowry is a process by which the parents of the bride and groom help the young ciups to set up their own home-a bit of financial security if you will. Similarly marriage is a joining together of families where the married couple will have 2 sets of parents. It is not a business deal where I try to get the most affluent man for my daughter and get the most beautiful, educated, moneyed woman for my son. The practice I see even among evangelical christians is despicable and sinful and I pity these covetous christians.

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Reply by : george9   View Profile   Since : 20 Mar 2006 8:49:29 AM Close
Lets Just pray to the Lord that we have more people like Varghese & sincy_varghese, in our midst coz believe me our society today has gone to worst depths....Our standards have fallen so much & we preach like the Bible was written by our fathers....

Yes I am frustrated with the so called leadership of our assemblies that at times i have even seriously thought of taping some of our big brethern in their discussions of buying brides/grooms & giving it to the media....T.V channels are just waiting today for stuff like this....

Beleieve me if this trend goes on I wouldnt be too surprised if some frustrated father/brother/sister/mother takes this to the media. What a shame that would be ! ! !

We are forgetting that we are not only disobeying God but also the law of the land ! ! !

Hoping & praying that we can see some changes in the days to come ! ! !

George

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Reply by : holly   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2006 10:29:37 PM Close
Specially in beleivers community they will ask for more, because no ornaments. parents should give something to their daughters, but guys parents shouldn't ask for it. specially in our community guys parents will say we donr expect any thing from you other than the girl, but they will also mention some or the other way my elder son got so much or i gave so much to my daughter. I have seen lots of matrimonial add in our site, looking for godfearing good looking girl. What does it means?? Ofcourse our community is worse in asking for dowry. We all can talk about faith/beleif and scriptures, but none will follow the same.
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Reply by : samben   View Profile   Since : 3 Apr 2006 3:46:39 PM Close
Living in India, its against law to give Dowry. There are so many organizations in our country fighting against it. V beleivers r also with the world. I could find lot of evangelists who has wrote about it and speaks about it get money when they get marriage and try frantically to find a bride with more dowry. Its such a pittiful
scene in our church. its a sad thing which cannot be stopped. People who are against it please pray that our Lord be back soon.
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Reply by : deepuvarghese   View Profile   Since : 16 Apr 2006 7:10:38 AM Close
one saying i heard is "when it comes to dowry all religions are same"

Its sad to see believers taking and giving dowry.

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Reply by : terry_martin   View Profile   Since : 18 Apr 2006 4:02:41 PM Close
Dear Brethren,
DOWRY is one form of evil that many believers down south(in India)are entrapped in. They are neither ignorant nor are they innocent but I must say they are arrogant(a show-off)in accepting this evil practice to flourish. We may all join this forum and state many things against DOWRY but it all stops here. We are not bold and commited for the right christian principles of living that we never raise our voice when this EVIL is blatantly followed by many of our Assembly members. Marriages where the daughters are traded for money(DOWRY) are well attended by one and all and graced by leading evangelists and church elders even after having a clear correct knowledge of this practice followed by the couple's parents. Great messages are preached and songs of Love and unity are sung. REMEMBER this, by attending such marriages too we dishonour our LORD and His teachings. DOWRY in any form is wrong and the world too identify's it as a crime which is punishable.
In our Assemblies sadly many of us are man-pleasers and thats the reason why this evil practice still has its head raised amongst us. When we hear of Dowry practiced by poor and not well to do brethren WOW we are shocked and we come down on them like fire and brimstone, we threaten to excommunicate them and like-wise but when it is practiced by the wealthy who like to flaunt their wealth we share our joy with these families and the marriage is spoken as a testimony of our prayer answered.
Our Godly stand where ever we are will help eradicate this evil practice and not by using words and verses in such forums and pulpits.
May God give us Grace to practice what is right.
In everything we do may we ask this question, Will this give(bring) glory to our God?
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Reply by : abc   View Profile   Since : 19 Apr 2006 4:09:04 AM Close
Dear all
Brethren in South India are Hypocrites. They never practice anything they preach. All evils are present among them. And they are not ashamed of anything. They have no testimony among the people around. The leadership is puffed up with theoretical knowledge and they are worst than the ordinary believers. You can see their puffed up knoledge, arrogance and attitude from their postings and replies in th forum.
When it comes to practical living, they are silent.
Although i said 'they, they', i am one among them. So speaking from experience.
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Reply by : abygeorge   View Profile   Since : 19 Apr 2006 6:37:15 AM Close
abc - Are you doing anything about fixing "they". Or you are going to just sit around and do nothing?
Get up off your chair and in front of the PC and start a revival among US.
God bless you.
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Reply by : beracha   View Profile   Since : 19 Apr 2006 6:41:43 AM Close
Dowry is a social evil and a bad practice among almost all the ethnic/ religious groups in India.(We are not considering other nationalities for the time being). Giving and taking dowry are illegal. Having said that, let us also think of another side of it…..

Does a girl child have a right to share in the wealth of her parents? Does she have a right at all? If girls have an inheritance right, what is the proportion of that? To my knowledge, those who get a dowry are not entitled for any further share in the wealth of their parents. In certain cases the dowry demanded and given exceeds the rightful share of the girls in the property of the parents. But there are also cases where the dowry given and taken is much less than what the girl is rightfully entitled to. The evil is in asking for something beyond the means of the parents.

My point in saying this is that while opposing the evil practice of dowry, we must also raise our voices for ensuring that the girls are not denied of their ‘rightful’ share in the wealth of their parents. Can anyone suggest a mechanism for implementing this? What is the present system prevailing among us?. No parent would desire to get their daughters married away for cheap, without costing them anything or without giving them anything. I am positive that those of us who oppose the evil practice of Dowry are not helping those who are looking for exploiting an innocent, God fearing young man of the rightful share of his future wife in her parental property.

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Reply by : bthomas   View Profile   Since : 19 Apr 2006 4:29:49 PM Close
Simple, Dowry is evil. It is a cultural practice that many Indians practice today. Dowry is an easy way to keep upper class marrying only upper class and the lower class marrying lower class. This has led to caste system within the church. Not only in Indian Brethren church but other denominations also. This is possibly the reason why the Indian Brethren church is shrinking, many lower class Brethren are leaving. The upper class is not willing to share control.
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Reply by : jinsonmc2004   View Profile   Since : 22 Apr 2006 1:11:21 AM Close
Dowry is Evil indeed.. all the born again belivers are converted from other relegion for sure... but when they got converted ,, though they left many tradition rituals behind.. but, i feel belivers community forget to leave behind dowry system. What i feel , when a girl is married, for christians girl dont have any rights on property once they are married,, so when they are married , parents give a amount for wellfair of their daughter.. thats extremely fine... But the evil thing is the forces that plays behind dowry in a relation..like negotiations that goes on for dowry between both parties.... marriages not getting fixed even though boy and girl happy to marry, but dowry prevents them from doing it.etc...
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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 22 Apr 2006 9:42:11 AM Close
If the parents of the boy is asking the dowry, even if the boy and girl wants to marry, their plan is not to give the money to the newly wedd. Boy's parents plan is to take the dowry for themselves and spend it for their own use. That may not be a allowed by the girl's parents. They want to give the portion of their wealth to the newly wedd on a later day before they die.
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Reply by : mom23   View Profile   Since : 17 Feb 2007 10:10:02 AM Close
I have been reading all the posted messages and here is my two cents..
First of all, most of us say that "dowry" is against the law. According to the Indian penal code, any exchange of money/property etc. at the time of marriage,which includes during or after is considered a "dowry" and all it takes is,maybe a phone call, to the local law enforcement, for jail-time, for the people involved.So, when we consider ourselves law abiding citizens otherwise, we seem to be breaking the law as a community and we celebrate this event and act like it is wonderful in Lord's sight.If you need to give the girl her share of her father's property, which she definitely is entitled to, why is there such a compeling need to give it to her at the time of marriage? Why not gift it to her in your will sharing the property "equally" with all your children at the time of your demise or before? "Not more to my son since he will take care of me.."
And boys...looking for a hand out from girls' father...shame on you!! Make it on your own man! And thank the Lord for all He "chooses" to give you. Trying to get rich off another man's life's work..is it truly the Lord's will? Shouldn't the girl's family wonder whether such a person is truly going to "take care of my daughter in sickness and health and love her like unto himself". I wouldn't trust my precious babies and my Lord's blessings with a human being like that.
Secondly, at the time of marriage, the girl and the boy leave their parents..remember a little verse called "cleave to their wives", so why do we promote the fact that the girl leaves her family and the same is not expected of the groom. This is another example of mixing culture and traditions with religion.
I think all of us should spend some time to re-evaluate our priorities prayerfully, really read the Lord's word and of course, take the time to apply it in our lives a little more. It is amazing how the Lord works on all our secular attitudes and shapes us as true "Ambassadors of Christ".
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Reply by : ifellinlovewithamalayalee   View Profile   Since : 22 Oct 2011 8:13:50 PM Close

in my country, even if parents are pennyless.. we still care for them. i didn't knew that in india, parents need to secure funds for themselves.   --->>reps to siby

 

Dowry is one of the most despicable practices of the Christians of Kerala. When I became born-again I thought that all pentecostals and brethrens (the so called evangelicals) would be leading or at least striving to lead christian lives free of covetousness and I was and still am sadly disillusioned. I have found two types of covetous people:
1. The groom's parents (especially mother?) who want to put up their son for sale to the highest bidder(includes the girls looks, capacity to earn in future and current assets)
2. The bride's parents (especially the father?) who wants to send their daughter to possibly the most affluent house (and if possible get a free marriage).

I find no difference between these two group of people.

I am married with a young daughter. As a father I want to send my daughter out, not with a rich man, but with a God-fearing man. In the process if I have some money I want to give a fair share of money to my daughter for her and her husband to set up a house when they are married. So if I have a son and daughter I would give 40% to my daughter and 60% to my son(since he will be taking care of my expenses).
If I have 2 daughters I will split 40% each and keep the rest 20% for mine and my spouse's expenses. Anyway these are my plans, but the idea should be to be able to give a fair share to all of yoyr children. For me dowry is a process by which the parents of the bride and groom help the young ciups to set up their own home-a bit of financial security if you will. Similarly marriage is a joining together of families where the married couple will have 2 sets of parents. It is not a business deal where I try to get the most affluent man for my daughter and get the most beautiful, educated, moneyed woman for my son. The practice I see even among evangelical christians is despicable and sinful and I pity these covetous christians.

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Reply by : tgeorgechi   View Profile   Since : 18 Jan 2012 11:55:12 PM Close

Funny that so far I have not seen the so called future inheritors of Brethren leadership opine and obliviate or pontificate about the evils of dowry and support them with Biblical verses and their own standards of righteous behaviors. They are few on here that spew Greek and Hebrew and full of ego and arrogance in their reponses to others. Unfortunately, these are the folks our generation and others that follow have to listen to - do as I say not do as I do. Shameful testimony dear brothers and sisters.

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Reply by : avoid_legalism   View Profile   Since : 23 Jan 2012 2:51:59 PM Close

You don't need greek or hebrew to proclaim that dowry is evil.  It's against the law of the land. (in India).  we should obey these laws.  Enough said.

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 3:55:44 AM Close

 Dear tverghese,

Dowry is prohibited by law in India. At the same time law provides equal right to the famale children in the parental property. Female children after their marriage, normally join their husband and shift residence to become a member of the husband's family. Is it not fair to give the daughter her share of property at the time of her marriage in adherance to the law of the land?

You have said; "1. It is not at all good for believers (testimony)

2. No PRACTICAL Christian (including brethren) can give / take dowry.

Will you please establish your statements on the basis of the Scripture ?

Regards

P.A.Paulose 

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 10:09:38 AM Close

To LizaGeorge

Competition is the soul of progress. I think we all should encourage our children to be competitve and contrbute their best to the society and make their life worthy and meaningful instead of wasting it away lethargically.

You said & I quote"Our children are our assets for ever. whether a girl or boy my kids have equal place in my home. They are neither for sale or nor an encumberance."

Do you think that if you give  a reasonable and lawful share from your property to your daughterat her marriage, it amounts to treating her as an encumberrance that you pay to get rid off?

If the parents of your daughter-in-law decide to deal righteously and give her share of property to her at her wedding, do you think it is tantamount to them purchasing your son for a price? Do you think that by not objecting to or interfering in their personal affair, you are committing an heinous act of selling your son?

Regards

P.A.Paulose

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 11:46:43 AM Close

To george9,

It seems that Dowry was not a relevant issue amongst the Israelites and perhaps that is the reason that we do not see specific instructions on this subject in the Scriptures. In the ancient Middle East a man was expected to make a gift to his bride's father. Thus Dowry got originated as the Bride-price. This is evident from Gen 34:12, 29:18, 1Sam 18:25 etc. There are examples also of the bride being given some gifts by her parents. Gen 29:24, 29. Josh 15:17-19.

Marriage is very important step because it can make or mar a person’s entire life. People look for “SUITABILITY” in the process of matchmaking. Suitable in Belief System (Faith), Spiritual Growth, Health, wealth, family Status, Reputation , Testimony, EQ and a plethora of other aspects. When all such aspects are considered and accepted fit for evaluation, why to hypocritically single out the financial status of the girl’s family as an evil consideration?  Paradoxically, it is fine with the bride’s family delving deep into the finances of the bridegroom and his share in the property!

What is “SUITABILITY”? Some look for Compatibility whilst others look for Complementarity. Both options are fine provided the bride and the Bridegroom have the same choice. However the marriage will end up in a disaster if one is looking for Compatibility whilst other is looking for Complementarity.

Despise Money. You use it but you are not attached to it. Money is not your LIFE-GOAL.  Money is nothing more than a tool that can help in attaining your life-goal.

When money transaction becomes a major factor in marriage, it may become a sin of Covetousness and Greed and all sorts of evil will creep in. But at the same time the major chunk of properties in a family, irrespective of who really earned it, goes to the boys and the girls are treated as step-children and work-horses. This is injustice. There is nothing wrong in the girl's father giving her reasonable and lawful share to her at the time of her wedding.

Regards

P.A.Paulose  

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 1:00:23 PM Close

 To sincy_varghese,

I fully concur with your views. Your post depicts a mature, balanced Christian mindset.

Regards

P.A.Paulose

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 1:12:21 PM Close

 To Holly,

You have said & I quote "parents should give something to their daughters, but guys parents shouldn't ask for it.........Ofcourse our community is worse in asking for dowry. We all can talk about faith/beleif and scriptures, but none will follow the same."

May I request you to explain why parents should not ask for it? Can you please quote what commandment is violated if the reasonable and legitimate share of the female child in the property is demanded, given and accepted?

Regards

P.A.Paulose

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 1:21:54 PM Close

 To terry_martin

 Whilst giving equal share in the property to both male and female children is legal and laudable, Dowry is an offence punishable by law. Isee some contradiction of sorts. May I request you to enlighten me on the difference between Dowry and Share?

Regards

P.A.Paulose 

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 1:50:48 PM Close

Dear bthomas,

You have said & I quote: " Dowry is an easy way to keep upper class marrying only upper class and the lower class marrying lower class. "  I am of the opinion that joining together two incompatible lives in matrimony in total disregard to their upbringing, values, lifestyle,attitudes, family background, social and economic status etc will NOT do any good to the Brethren Congration because, it seems to me that such marriages are hard to sustain in the long run.

May I know why you are so particular to amalgamate the Club Class with the Cattle Class? How does it help?

Are you indeed a supporter of the Communist principle of equal distribtion of wealth in the society?

Regards

P.A.Paulose

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 2:32:43 PM Close

Dear mom23,

Your message is really thought provoking. Congrats. I think all the present day problems originate from the basic fact that our practice of the girl leaving her family after marriage is NOT the Perfect Will of God. I concur with you as you said: "remember a little verse called "cleave to their wives", so why do we promote the fact that the girl leaves her family and the same is not expected of the groom. This is another example of mixing culture and traditions with religion." 

Now coming to the question of deferred disbursement of share, you said:"Why not gift it to her in your will sharing the property "equally" with all your children at the time of your demise or before?"

Let me approach the suggestion very positively. Consider the net asset of the family at the time of daughter's marriage is, say MINIMAL. An extrordinary growth in the family finances may take place solely attributable to the efforts of her siblings. In such an event,giving the married daughter an equal share may not be equitable. It may also happen viceversa. Therefore, in my opinion, it is better that the money matters are never kept in deference.

Further You have exhorted the boys saying:"And boys...looking for a hand out from girls' father...shame on you!! Make it on your own man! 

Today, we see the girls faring much better than boys in many fields. I see girls getting employed in London, bringing their spouses here on family visa and these guys toil in gas stations, fish markets etc whilst the girls are the real bread winners. A WIFE is no more an acronym for " WONDERFUL INSTRUMENT FOR ENJOYMENT" Why don't you exhort the girls in similar terms as you challenge the boys?

Regards

P.A.Paulose

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 2:41:56 PM Close

To avoid_legalism

I repeat to you the question that I put to terry_martin

 "Whilst giving equal share in the property to both male and female children is legal and laudable, Dowry is an offence punishable by law. I see some contradiction of sorts. May I request you to enlighten me on the difference between Dowry and Share?

Please remember to quote definitions from the relevant legal enactments.

Regards

P.A.Paulose   

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Reply by : avoid_legalism   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2012 4:01:01 PM Close

When an estate is divided, it is divided upon the death of a parent.  Everybody, that is all siblings, get their share at the same time.  Dowry (from my limited understanding) is a present value of the future estate division. 

I have no legal basis, as I am not an attorney.  But the simple fact is this dowry is illegal, plain and simple.  Dividing the estate when a parent dies is not against the law.

Regardless of if you disagree with the dowry law, the law is the law!  this is not a case where the law violates a Biblical principle, it violates certain people's opinions. 

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 3 Apr 2012 4:15:49 PM Close

Dear Bro. avoid_legalism,

When an estate is divided, it is divided upon the death of a parent. 

 Not essentially true. It can be divided at will. Hence we can't generalise the time of partition.

Everybody, that is all siblings, get their share at the same time. 

What you have said is indeed an EXCEPTIONAL case; not a normal custom.

Everybody, that is all siblings, get their share at the same time. 

Not necessarily; Partition of the estate even before the death is good in Law and in fact is a healthy practice on various practical counts.

Regardless of if you disagree with the dowry law, the law is the law!  

I am a law abiding citizen sir!

Regards

P.A.Paulose

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Reply by : avoid_legalism   View Profile   Since : 3 Apr 2012 4:28:30 PM Close

Estate can be divided anytime, you are correct. 

I may have missed it, but what are you advocating/stating with respect to dowries?  Are you saying the concept of dowry is ok, or are you saying dowry is no different than an estate division? 

 

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 4 Apr 2012 5:36:52 AM Close

Dear Apologia,

 As I said, I am a law abiding citizen. Law prohibits Dowry. So let us not get involved in a Dowry transaction.

Law grants equal share in the parental property to all the siblings. So Let us not violate the rule of Law out of Greed /Covetousness.

You fulfil both the Laws when you sincerely disclose the share of property  of both the bride and the bridegroom at the time of marriage and deliver it to them instantly for them to utilize it in the manner they deem fit.

P.A.Paulose

 

 

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Reply by : palatty   View Profile   Since : 4 Apr 2012 5:38:59 AM Close

 Sorry!

Correction please...The above post is addressed to  avoid_legalism

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Reply by : svarg   View Profile   Since : 7 Jan 2013 4:31:07 PM Close

Dowry is evil; though my father in law gave dowry to my father.

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Reply by : svarg   View Profile   Since : 7 Jan 2013 4:31:41 PM Close

Instead of dowry the parents can give the land to the children as inherritance.

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Reply by : ayyopavam   View Profile   Since : 12 Mar 2013 1:10:26 AM Close

usual i am a sailent listner....but now i want say some thing.  What is dowry actualy.? and how it bacame a nasty thing...? letme explane.... supose one parent have 2 kids and and the total welth of the parents is 100 rs. it should divide by 3 . one part for parents.rest two of them for the kids. wheter kids are boy or girl. in this case that is the right of the kids.. in some cases parents dont want to give anything to his doughter. here is the problom. why parents doing this......

now it is realy bad practice if some one bargaining for money from girls parents when he is giving the maximum what he can give to his doughter.

then in most  cases probloms are araising when a parents  want to sent  his doughter to a rich famly. why this parent not looking a boy who is same like them....?

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Reply by : paulthomas1   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2013 7:57:53 PM Close

You should not remain sailent al the time and tanks for spaking out. Dowry is a nasty thing correct but are you confusing your explaneation with inheritance?

The problem with dowry are araising when families fix marriages based on the dowry amount and that is true even to this day, depending on the qualification/job of the guy.

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