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Keralabrethren.net: General Forum: Salvation

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# 08296 :  Salvation

Hey All,

This is a discussion which came as a by product of the discussion of the post # 08294 :  Repost - Brethren person marrying a Pentecost person.

I have been waiting for 9-10 days for a reply on the previous post but I think subject of the previous post does not address the actual discussion point and hence there is no discussion there. Hence starting this new thread :)

Regarding unconditional salvation -
I want to understand more about this and (again not quoting this verse for arguement sake), would like to hear your thoughts on the below verse -
Hebrews 6:4-8 "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned."

Rgds,

Britto

Post by : britto_raphael  View Profile    since : 13 May 2017


Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 13 May 2017 8:32:01 AM Close

From what I understood, If a person(who is previously saved/unsaved) forsakes Jesus's name (i.e. does not believe that Jesus is the Saviour) he would not be saved.

For all the others who unknowingly sin, they have chance to realise it , repent and come back to God and they will be saved.

For the people who think anyways Salvation is unconditional, and knowingly sin - God knows their hearts and will judge accordingly.

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 13 May 2017 11:36:06 AM Close

Hello Britto,

I got to check the KB site today after some time. I apologise for not responding earlier. As I would have explained this is primarily due to the want of time. I shall hopefully address this tomorrow.

in the mean time, you can with the scriptures refer to the following commentary Eternal Security by Charles Stanley 

Regards,

Joe

P.S. Britto, most of the participants in this forum are not active anymore mainly due to constraints of time, lack of interest and increase in misguided proponents.

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 15 May 2017 10:29:07 AM Close

Hello Britto,

Fortunately, I have been spared on writing about condition security. If you refer to: http://keralabrethren.net/boardkb/view.asp?id=8302&forum=General you should have most of your doubts cleared.

Regards,

Joe

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 15 May 2017 4:56:13 PM Close

Thank you :)

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Reply by : samkul   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2017 6:35:27 PM Close

Brethren man can mary pentesoal women/ But Pentecosall girls can't marry brethren boys and pentecostal boys and marthomite boys or catholics or Syriran chrians or Orthodox or JacobiyesD6D2D is my seucirty code. 

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Reply by : samkul   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2017 6:36:37 PM Close

WHERE IS BOBY CHACO JAMES NOW A DAYS ALSO JEORGE KOSY is not seen DKHFK is my security code

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2017 5:42:34 AM Close

Britto,

Are you clear now or do you require more clarification? 

Regards,

Joe

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 19 May 2017 8:08:23 AM Close

HI Joe,

The other thread got deleted. However, I was able to find one similar in the archives of general forum (2005-2007). # 01473 :  Can a saved person lose his salvation if he sins?

I am reading from there for now. If you have the time, I would still love to hear what you have to say :)

Regards,

Britto

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 20 May 2017 1:45:41 PM Close

Hello Britto,

Before I give you my understanding on this matter. It would be wise if we touch a few topics leading to the question at hand. Which means let's address some questions that need to be asked before one looks for the answers to the current question.

I don't want to go into long, unwinding and confusing exposition here. So if you can answer these questions to the best of your knowledge, we will take it from there.  my objective is to keep it simple. Pray, I can.

  1. How would you describe God?
  2. Do you believe if God has a plan for everything/everyone?
  3. Do you believe if God knows the past/present/future of everything and everyone?

 

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2017 5:36:49 AM Close

Hi Joe,

1. God to me is like a Father who cares and provides for me.He is like a Mother to whom I can tell all my troubles and cry out.

2. Yes, I believe God has a plan for everything/everyone.

3. Yes, I do believe God is omniscient.

Rgds,

Britto

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2017 7:03:16 AM Close

Hello Britto,

Good, you have an understanding about the omnipotence of God. Lets now dig a little deeper.

  1. Does God know when you would be saved?
  2. Does God know when a believer would sin after he/she has been saved?

Think about this a bit before answering.

Regards,

Joe

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2017 7:52:40 AM Close

Hi Joe,

Bible says in Luke 12:7 - 7And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not be afraid;

I trust this completely which implies the smallest of things that happens to me is known to God.

So my answer to both your questions is a big Yes.

Regards,

Britto

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2017 11:21:04 AM Close

Hello Britto,

This might appear at some levels to be very childish. But believe me, the realisation will dawn soon once the exercise is completed without any interruptions.  

So you believe:

God knows when I would be saved and when I would sin even after being saved. 

You also believe that God has a plan for everything also. 

Now the next set of questions

  1. Do you accept that God can control you?
  2. Do you also accept, you have a choice?
  3. Do you believe that spirit of God can control you if you let it control you? 
  4. Or, do you believe that when it comes in, it will start controlling you immediately and not let go?

Regards

Joe

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2017 11:41:50 AM Close

HI Joe,

I agree to the first three points.

Regards,

Britto

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2017 8:36:55 AM Close

Good Britto.

So we are getting somewhere. So if you believe all this. 

  1. Do you believe he had a plan for you before you were even thought about by parents?
  2. Do you believe that as much as He has plans for you? He also lets evil people also take form and birth?

Regards,

Joe

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2017 9:53:12 AM Close

HI Joe,

I agree to the first point but I am not sure of the second one. I dont know if God pre destines people for hell.

Regards,

Britto

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2017 1:06:34 PM Close

Hello Britto,

It's a valid point. But it muddles the question. 

The question: Do you believe that as much as He has plans for you? He also lets evil people also take form and birth? 

There is no question of hell here, for the time being. We will deal with that later. I will add two more questions to it, to make it relevant and easier

  1. Do you accept that God allows evil people to take form and birth?
  2. Do you believe that when you were born, you were 'technically' evil? Or lets put a sober term which does not result in anybody else crediting this as heresy: Were you born in sin?
  3. And finally, Does sin come when one becomes/is evil?

Regards,

Joe

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2017 1:54:54 PM Close

Hi Joe,

1. We all were born in sin. If a person is spirit led, he/she tends to commit lesser sins. Otherwise the person sins a lot more. So if I were to take only the above two points in consideration, God does allow all sort of people to be born into this world and based on the choices they make in their lives they are either good or bad.

2. True that everyone is born in sin. We are born in sin, but we continue to sin by our own personal choice.

3. Sin is always within us. When one tends to sin a lot, he/she gets a tag of bieng an evil person/sinner/bad person.

Rgds,

Britto

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 25 May 2017 10:16:38 AM Close

Hello Britto,

Apologies for the delay, I had been caught with work.  I am now going to make a statement. If we agree on it. I will go ahead and give you my understanding. If not, we shall come to a mutual understanding before we proceed

Statement

Irrespective of how sinful I was, God chose me according to His plan. If I truly believe this. Even if I 'accidentally or willfully' sin after being saved. The Lord knows my heart, I will automatically/willingly repent and would strive to live a life which is worthy of Him. Because he knows me before I was formed, He planned for me before I was born and He loved me before I could ever love him back.

Regards,

Joe

 

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Reply by : britto_raphael   View Profile   Since : 26 May 2017 9:02:37 AM Close

Hi Joe,

I have my doubts on the willfully sinning part. But apart from that I agree to what you stated.

Regards,

Britto

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