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Keralabrethren.net: General Forum: Zac Poonen QA on Heaven Vs Hell

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# 08318 :  Zac Poonen QA on Heaven Vs Hell

I was watching this Zac Poonen QA Session video.

Around 5:30, Zac Poonen answers a question on 'unconscious sin' and 'conscious sin'. 'Whatever you can't do in fellowship with Christ is a sin' he said, continues and say that watching a football game is not a sin. He then answers another question at 4:44 minutes from the audience about whether his brother would go heaven or hell after he died after coming back from a worldly party, Zac Poonen says whatever his brother did was not 'deliberate knowing sin' but a mistake.

Is going to a worldly party something that you can do in fellowship with Christ (not unchrist) based on the definition he has given for 'sin'? Is Zac Poonen's answer to the question on heaven or hell biblically truthful?

Post by : studybible  View Profile    since : 23 Jul 2017


Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 25 Jul 2017 10:59:46 AM Close

Biblically speaking, 'unconscious sin' and 'conscious sin' may be called ‘sin not unto death’ and ‘sin unto death’ (1 John 5:16, 17) respectively. ‘Sin unto death’ can also be called ‘willful sin’ (Hebrew 10:26). Taking part in a worldly party is a deliberate known act and that is not a sin (1 Corinthian 10:27), not even a mistake as Zac Poonen says. Then, a believer taking part in such a party must be careful enough not to indulge in any avoidable practices like alcohol consumptions etc.

For having committed willful sins, repentance is absolutely necessary.

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Reply by : studybible   View Profile   Since : 25 Jul 2017 12:56:05 PM Close

Thanks for clarifying the differences between 'act', 'mistake' and 'willful sin'.

If you further watch the video from 5:30, you will hear Zac Poonen saying whatever many of us think as sin is not a sin. He says about the incident of Jesus converted the water into wine. Zan Poonen does not say drinking wine is a sin, but from his positive notion, I assume he is saying drinking wine is not a sin.

Is drinking wine which contains alcohol a 'sin unto death'?

 

 

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Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 26 Jul 2017 8:45:31 AM Close

It would not be wrong to presume that the wine Jesus made instantly out of the water available was not like a fermented wine consumed commonly.

We cannot say out rightly that taking an alcoholic drink is a condemnable sin. Noah consumed alcohol and we do not read in the Scripture that he was condemned for that. In OT, we read the Ecclesiastes saying “Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do (Eccl 9:7).

There are certain cases where consuming alcohol seems necessary. Labourers toiling in waste water drainage system, working in mortuaries and the like take alcohol not for pleasure, but to be off from the place mentally. If we see a brother in Christ working in such a place and find him drunkard, I cannot call him a sinner.   If a person physically working hard takes a little amount of alcohol with a genuine reason of not to feel the muscle pain while sleeping, I cannot judge him a sinner. I am not sure the wine suggested to Timothy by Paul to drink was a fermented one or a fresh grape juice (1 Tim 5:23).

But what we see in common is that people drink fermented wine just for addictive pleasure of kick. This is where the problem of sin starts. Frequent usage of alcohol for this purpose leads to commit sins. We can remember the story of Lot here. It is better, we the believers of NT followers keep off ourselves from consuming alcohol (1 Peter 4:3, Ephesians 5:18, Proverb 20:1, 23:31, 31:4, 5 Romans 13:13, Galatians 5:19-21).

We have to remember what Paul said “All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify” (1 Corinthian 10:23, 24). Zac Poonen has rightly said that we should not be a stumbling block to weak believers.

Drinking wine is not a sin unto to death, but surely a trap to make us committing sins unto death. Let the Lord strengthen us to live for HIM.

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Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 27 Jul 2017 7:20:17 AM Close

Alcohol facilitates sexual perversion - Modern version of Lot’s story

A 41 year old woman gave a 15-year-old boy drugs and alcohol and then had sex with him, a court has heard. Lindsey Taylor, 41, pleaded guilty to having sexual activity with the 15 year old youth.

Judge Geoffrey Mercer QC said:"This was a 41 year old woman and a 15 year old boy at the time. Drink had been drunk and cannabis had been smoked." Exeter Crown court heard that the alcohol and drugs were used 'to facilitate the offence'.

Taylor, of Tristan Close, Exeter, provided the funds for the teenager to buy the cannabis. Taylor was bailed and she will be sentenced next month after a report is prepared. The judge said granting her bail was no indication of what sentence she will receive. She was ordered to sign on to the Sex Offenders' register.

Sexual perversion is a Sin unto Death.

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Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 30 Jul 2017 8:52:12 AM Close

Off the subject -

'...drink of the fruit of the vine' (Luke 22:18)

'....but use a little wine' (1 Tim 5:23)

It looks there is a difference.

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Reply by : studybible   View Profile   Since : 1 Aug 2017 12:20:43 PM Close

Whatever happens in a worldy party are drinking alcohol, dancing with girls, drugs etc... I can also be wrong that nothing like that happened in that party. Howevery, the act of going to a party can turn into a sin like drinking a sip of wine to a bottle of wine. So, a circumstantial analysis about what the brother of this person who asked the question from the audience did at the party to decide the answer whether he would go Heaven or Hell.

Based on what we understand from Bible passages and the situations that you mentioned, it can be concluded that Zac Poonen's answer to the question that the brother of the person in the audience did a non-deliberate knowing sin is wrong. I firmly believe that Zac Poonen did not say his brother would go to hell if has done a certain deliberate knowing sin is to avoid the conflict with the person who asked the question.

 

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