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# 08369 :  Did Jesus of Nazareth Claim His Deity?

Dear Readers,

 

There are many groups, that claim to be Christians, deny the deity of Christ—Jesus of Nazareth. On this thread, we are looking into this subject as a discussion from the Scriptures—the Bible.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

Post by : George P. Koshy  View Profile    since : 17 May 2018


Reply by : appachan   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2018 11:38:50 AM Close

Brother,
It is a sad that there are people  who call themselves Christians and deny the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ.
scriptures are very clear on deniers(liars) Genesis starts with God hating lies(first sin) and Revelation also ends with God hating lies/liars(last sin mentioned in Bible).
1 John 2:22 
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ This is the true God and eternal life.
Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form...

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 18 May 2018 10:22:00 PM Close

Dear brother Koshy, 

Let me post few points in a study format. Hope this will suppliment your writings. 

 

TRAITS UNIQUE TO GOD & JESUS

As the creator –

God the Father – creator

Gen 1:1; Ps 102:25; Isa 44:24.

Ps 102:25 -“Of old You founded the earth,

And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Isa 44:24 - Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb,

“I, the Lord, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth [s]all alone, [see verses below]

Jesus the Son – as the creator

John 1:3; Col 1:16; Heb.1:2, 10

John 1:3 -He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Col 1:13-23

13 [t]For He [Father] rescued us from the [u]domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of [v]His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

15 [w]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16 For [x]by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He [y]is before all things, and in Him all things [z]hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19 For [aa]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [ab]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [ac]heaven.

21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in [ad]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [ae]was made a [af]minister.

As the first & the last

 God – Isa 44:6 [quoted above]

Jesus -  Rev 1:17; 22:12-13

Rev 1:17 -  When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last,18 and the living One; and I [l]was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. 

Rev 22:12-13 Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man [g]according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

Lord of Lords

God- Deut 10:17; Ps 136:3

Deut 10:17 - For the Lord your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.

Ps 136:3 - Give thanks to the Lord of lords,

For His lovingkindness is everlasting.

Jesus –  1 Tim 6:15; Rev 17:14; 19:16

1 Tim 6:15 - which He will [j]bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of [k]kings and Lord of [l]lords.

Rev 17:14 - These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.

Rev 19:6 - And on His [the One whose robe has the stain of blood] robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Unchanging & eternal

God – Ps 90:2; 102:26-27; Mal 3:6

Jesus –   John 8:58; Col 1:17; Heb. 1:11-12; 13:8

Judge of all people

God – Gen 18:25; Ps 94:2; 96:13; 98:9

Jesus – John 5:22; Acts 17:31; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim 4:1

The only Savior

God – Isa 43:11; 45:21-22; Hosea 13:4

Jesus – John 4:42; Acts 4:12; Titus 2:13; 1 John 4:14

Contd. [TRAITS UNIQUE TO GOD & JESUS CHRIST.]

Redeems from their sins –

God – Exodus 19:5; Ps 130:7-8; Ezekiel 37:23.

Jesus – Titus 2:14

Hears & answers prayers of those who call on Him.

God – Ps 86:5-8; Isa 55:6-7; Jer. 33:3; Joel 2:32

Jesus – John14:14; Rom 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2Cor. 12:8-9

Has divine glory

God – Isa 42:8 & 48:11

Jesus – John 17:5 ‘the glory I had with you before the world was created.’

Worshipped by angels.

God – Ps 97:7

Jesus – Heb. 1:6

I pray that this would be a study tool to understand this subject. And this is one of the most important doctrines every Christian should understand. 

Tom Johns

 

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 21 May 2018 4:18:50 PM Close

Dear ‘appachan,’ and Tom,

 

Thank you for your contributions. They are appreciated.

 

I have a simple question to brother Tom: In your posting there are certain marks within square brackets. For example, under Isaiah 44:24, there is a mark “[s].” Similar marks are at other places, also. Could you explain them? It will help me.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 22 May 2018 1:09:34 PM Close
Touching on [s] opens Biblegateway's website
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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2018 7:11:44 PM Close

Dear Readers,

 

What do we learn from the spoken words of Jesus of Nazareth that are given to us as the first written words from Him?

 

The first statement of the Lord, as recorded for us is seen in Luke 2:49, “Why is it that you have sought Me? Did you not know that I ought to be occupied in My Father’s business?

 

Please try to answer the opening question, while remembering the following:

1.      He made this statement at the age of 12;

2.      Twelve is the age when a Jewish child began to come to Jerusalem;

3.      Twelve was the age at which the ‘Great School of Rabbis’ was opened to Him to take part in their discussions;

4.       He was at the temple hearing the teachers of the Jews and asking them questions;

5.      Those who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers;

6.      His answer to His parents—especially to His mother—was to correct a legally correct statement, that was not true;

7.      It was given to Mary who knew the truth, but understood not.

 

Please post your findings.

 

The following Scriptures may help you in your study:

Psalm 40:5-11

Matthew 16:21; 26:54

Mark 8:31

Luke 4:43; 9:23; 13:33; 24:7, 26, 46

John 3:14; 4:4; 12, 34

 

When we read the first spoken word as written in the Word of God in Luke 2:49, we read the last word on His accomplished work, “It is finished,” while He was on the cross.

 

We also read the first official word, as the Son of Man, in Matthew 4 and Luke 4, “It is written.”

 

I will wait for your contributions that are pertaining to the topic as stated on the topic of this thread.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 23 May 2018 10:23:50 PM Close

Dear Bro. Koshy, 

[s] or any such letters are point of reference in the Bible program that I was copying the verses. Those do not do anything here, but in the original Bible program we can click on and get additional information. 

Tom Johns

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 31 May 2018 2:11:39 PM Close

Dear Readers,

 

This is the first written statement from the Lord Jesus Christ about His deity.

 

However, some are ready and willing to make statements that He did not claim His deity; and many believers, even in the assembly, repeat after them.

 

There are other statements from our Lord Jesus Christ about His deity, as they are written in the Bible. The word, ‘Written,” when used is a clear indication about the inspiration, as well as the immutability and inerrancy of those statements.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 7 Jun 2018 7:24:49 PM Close

Dear Readers,

 

Another written statement about the Lord claiming deity is in Matthew 4 and Luke 4. In these written statements, Christ claimed His deity to Satan, while in the former time (Luke 2) it was to His human parents in the presence of the Jewish teachers.

 

However, some are ready and willing to make statements that He did not claim His deity; and many believers, even in the local assemblies, repeat after them.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : appachan   View Profile   Since : 8 Jun 2018 11:43:59 AM Close

Q.In John 8:59,  why would the pharisees pick up stones to throw at Jesus?
Ans. The Lord Jesus said “I AM” .Seven times The Lord says "I AM" . In the Bible only God uses that phrase(Ex 3:14) , Therefore Lord jesus is the Great "I AM" confirming his deity. The pharisees who the Lord commends for doctrine(whatsoever they bid observe...Matt 23:3) understood exactly what the Lord jesus meant and wanted to stone him for blasphemy for equating himself with God.

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Reply by : moses2006   View Profile   Since : 8 Jun 2018 3:33:28 PM Close

John 10:30: I and the Father are one. How can anyone who reads this and calls himself a believer make statements that Jesus did not claim His deity?! I find that hard to believe.

If there is any doubt in anyone's mind about what Jesus was saying in v30, let him know that the Jews who heard him had no doubts. They were ready to stone the Lord for His claim of being deity!

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 17 Jun 2018 8:51:27 AM Close

There is no question in the mind of a believer (Christian believer to be specific) on the deity of Christ and his proclamation. Nobody contests that, not even the Pope for the matter, every denominational Christian accepts that he is the son of God. Their ways and doctrines might be wrong, but this is one thing that binds all of them because all the accept that he is the Son of God and hence, God. Whether they believe or have faith is another topic altogether.

To think or assume otherwise does not make one a believer, he/she is of a different faith.  Believers who raise such topics in discussions are just doing it for attention to themselves. 

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 21 Jun 2018 3:05:09 PM Close

Joe,

Jehovah Witness group claim to be Christian. In fact they are very active in propagating their teachings, perhaps more than many other group. The question is that how well we can defend what we believe against what they try to teach.

Tom Johns

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 22 Jun 2018 4:57:04 AM Close

Tom,

Belief and teachings are two different things. If we go by what JW, we might even say the Pentecostals are wrong. The question is: Do they accept the deity of Christ? In this context, most of them do, including JW, I happened to meet one of them who was preaching their ideologies in the city to passers-by, they say: Jesus is the Way. Now all of them do that. Belief in Christ is a one-way channel, but teachings have many branches, some bear fruit, some are there because they are there and many, just plain rotten.

That is why I do not go too much into this because whether it is for good or bad (God will judge) Christ is being made known to the world, and in this, we should rejoice (Philippians 1:15-18). Let's leave the judgement and weighing to God. 

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Reply by : kristianjude   View Profile   Since : 22 Jun 2018 1:22:11 PM Close
Proclaiming Christ's deity by words does not make one a Christian, but only his living makes him so - Titus 1:16
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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 25 Jun 2018 6:52:41 PM Close

Dear Readers,

 

Another place where Jesus of Nazareth claimed His deity is to a man who came and addressed Him, “…  A person ran up to Him, and kneeling to Him, Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” The reply from the Lord was, “Why call you Me good? No one is good but one, that is God.” Lord Jesus Christ was referring to Psalm 86:5 and 119:68.

 

The same incident is reported in Matthew 19:16 and Luke 18-19. From the Gospel of Luke, we learn that this man who came and worshipped Jesus was a ruler of the Jews. When he kneeled down before Jesus, that man was worshipping Him.

 

To him, the Lord said that there is only one who is good and that is God. As he worshipped Him and called Him ‘Good,” he was admitting the deity of Jesus Christ. This was appropriately pointed out to the man by the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 25 Jun 2018 7:03:50 PM Close

Dear ‘paizanjoe,’

 

You wrote on 22 June 2018, “Belief and teachings are two different things. If we go by what JW, we might even say the Pentecostals are wrong. The question is: Do they accept the deity of Christ? In this context, most of them do, including JW, I happened to meet one of them who was preaching their ideologies in the city to passers-by, they say: Jesus is the Way. Now all of them do that. Belief in Christ is a one-way channel, but teachings have many branches, some bear fruit, some are there because they are there and many, just plain rotten.

 

Do you know what we are trying to discuss on this thread? It appears that you are not aware of it. Please read the title. It is self-explanatory.

 

However, I will address your ignorance about groups that claim to be Christians, but are not. They are Jehovah’s witnesses (JW), Mormon, Seventh Day Adventists (SDA), Unitarians, etc. They deny the deity of Jesus Christ, while claim to be Christians. They may even mislead others by saying that they believe in His deity. JW belief is that only Jehovah is God and Jesus was in the form and likeness of God as all the children of Adam are. Mormons also have a similar faith and they may mislead others by saying that He had deity. If you ask them point blank, then they will say that he was a god as all of us are children of God. You ask SDA, they will say that Lucifer is the brother of the Son of God—Jesus. Of you ask Unitarians, they will provide a similar statement and when asked pointedly, they may amend their answer to indicate that only Jehovah is God and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not. However, you with all your zeal, accept their lie.

 

Did you ask the ‘preacher to the passers-by’ what they mean by, “Jesus is the Way?” You and you “One-way channel” is so far away from the Word of God. When a person say that “Jesus is the way,” that does not indicate that they accept His deity. Your teaching may have many branches, but there is only one teaching about the deity of Christ and that was taught by the Son of God. Unfortunately many, who claim to be believers, deny this truth that Jesus of Nazareth taught that He is God. It is quite evident that you are ignorant of that fact.

 

Please do not post, if you do not have something to contribute that is in line with the title of this thread.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 26 Jun 2018 2:12:44 AM Close

George P Koshy,

Christians if they say they are one, do not deny the deity of Christ. I do not know which JW, Mormons etc you have met, neither do I have any intentions of going into the details.

None of them denies the deity of Jesus Christ, even for that matter based on my conversations with them, JW fundamentally believes Jesus is the first creation and that all creation came through Him, therefore He is the Way.  They accept his deity, which is the case for Mormons as well, I don't know about the others nor do I believe they deny His deity. If you think so, then it is your ignorance or maybe you conveniently omit hearing them out. If you say that they do deny it, then I think you haven't met Christians.

There is no question about the significance of Christ in world religion, but those who profess that they are Christian accept that they are taught he is God. You have begun this topic on deity and there is no confusion on it. Anybody, even namesake, who is Christian knows Jesus as the Son of God and hence a deity, whether they believe it is a different thing, whether they teach something else is a different thing. You can teach a whole lot of things which are wrong but still profess Jesus as Lord and God. If you think you cannot, then I think you are not up to the times. 

So if you dont have a clarity on this, ask, but don't go in circles and bring Christian groups and defame them just for the sake of it.

 

 

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 26 Jun 2018 4:13:44 PM Close

Dear ‘paizanjoe,’

 

You admitted that those groups in question deny the deity of Jesus of Nazareth—Lord Jesus Christ.

 

This thread is not to defend them, as you do. If you want a discussion on those groups and their beliefs, I suggest that you start another thread. If you continue to post on this thread that are not related to the title, I will ask the owners of this Forum to remove those postings. You are trying to hijack this thread away from its scope and intent.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 27 Jun 2018 12:13:41 AM Close

'George Koshy',

It was clear and simple in my posts about what I have stated, you have selective reading habits or refuse to understand the point. I have not hijacked a thread but you have opened a topic to garner attention to yourself.

Let me try again if you are Christian, even a denominational one - you are taught or know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Jesus is Christ. For you to understand this fully, please go and speak to someone from a different denomination without hidden motives and ask them 'what they know about Jesus Christ'. I have given this thread common examples which have been totally ignored (E.g. the Pope). 

I don't wish to entertain such talks or postings from such people because in this topic itself - you have formed a judgemental view on people who have different views and opinions. You have become the judge on who accepts the deity of Christ and what you perceive is your understanding of the scripture. Most of these 'denomination' when they do, read the bible as well and don't have any doubts about this topic - maybe you do and that is your limitation.

I don't have any question in my mind about this topic. The scripture is clear on the deity of Christ. And, it doesn't matter which denomination you are from, but if there is a 'tag' called Christian - they know that Jesus is the son of God and Christ. Anything else is not Christian.

You may go and speak to the admin & moderators and get my posts removed. It is unfortunate people behave like they are in kindergarten and start complaining to the teacher.It'ss not too late for everyone to practice some humility and hear people out. If you cannot, please stop posting topics to the public forum.

Joe

 

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 27 Jun 2018 3:21:37 PM Close

Dear ‘paizanjoe,’

 

You are trying to hijack this thread. This title of this thread is, “Did Jesus of Nazareth Claim His Deity?” You have not posted anything about it. However, you are trying to establish that JW, SDA, Mormons, Unitarians, etc. believe that Jesus of Nazareth—Lord Jesus Christ—is God. They do not believe that Lord Jesus Christ is God. They believe that Lord Jesus Christ is a created being; including Lucifer in that category. You are a man who also has the same belief. Please start another thread to discuss your contention.

 

If you post another frame on this thread that is away from the title of this thread, I will ask the owners of this Forum to remove them. This is the second time I am making this request.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : paizanjoe   View Profile   Since : 27 Jun 2018 4:29:06 PM Close

This is my last post since you really do not know what you write.

Subject line: Did Jesus of Nazareth Claim His Deity?

Body copy: 

There are many groups, that claim to be Christians, deny the deity of Christ—Jesus of Nazareth. On this thread, we are looking into this subject as a discussion from the Scriptures—the Bible.

Please read carefully what you have posted. Which groups are you talking about?

The second and last thing, I am only taking two examples since you keep talking about these groups like you have some hidden fantasy on them.

Go to the Jehovah Witness site and read carefully

They believe he is the Son of God, their contention is he is not Almighty God (which is wrong), they accept he is the son of God and there is godhood in him. 

The second one, go to the Mormon site

Show me in this where they have professed he is a creation or denied his deity?

Let me make this very clear to you, I do not subscribe to their views, Christ is the son of God and He is the beginning and the end. Christ is equal to God, he is God. But even in Christ's godhood, there are things which only the Almighty Father knows. Even then, there is no denying is Godhood, and He has professed He is God on many occasions. Denominational Christian do know this and will tell you that. Whether they believe that and have other branches in that thinking is completely a different topic.

This topic and your explanations are just like some of the Jewish sympathizers here who say his name is not Jesus but Yeshua, and that they are not Christians but are people who believe in the Messiah. Completely pointless. I stop here, you can subscribe whatever you want, let the Lord judge.

You may close my posts or do what you want, doesn't matter to me. 

Joe

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Reply by : appachan   View Profile   Since : 3 Jul 2018 1:15:20 PM Close

The Lord Jesus asked "What think ye of Christ?" in Mathew 22:42 , Below is what a mighty Prophet of God said and an Angel of the Lord God Almighty also said.

Isaiah 9:6 Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mathew 1:23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is, being interpreted, 'God with us.

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Reply by : pc   View Profile   Since : 3 Jul 2018 3:50:51 PM Close

Explicit or implicit claim?

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Reply by : pc   View Profile   Since : 4 Jul 2018 2:25:09 AM Close

 My question: 'Explicit or implicit claim' was directed to Mr. George Koshy.

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Reply by : appachan   View Profile   Since : 4 Jul 2018 2:36:52 PM Close

Dear PC,

Ok, I deleted my response.

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 6 Jul 2018 2:52:40 PM Close

Dear ‘pc,’

 

When I read the Word of God, the ‘explicit’ and ‘implicit’ sayings of God have the same value.

 

Please do not ask for further clarifications, on this thread. If you want a discussion on this subject, ‘explicit’ and ‘implicit,’ please start a new thread.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : pc   View Profile   Since : 8 Jul 2018 4:41:20 AM Close

 

Hi Mr. George,

Thanks for your kind words that telling me to stay away from your thread. Thanks again for your recommendation to start another thread.                                                                                

 PC

 

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Reply by : appachan   View Profile   Since : 2 Aug 2018 12:14:55 PM Close

Zech 2:10 The Lord says, “Shout and rejoice, O beautiful Jerusalem, for I am coming to live among you.

John 4:23-26 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus *said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 3 Aug 2018 3:21:07 PM Close

Dear Readers,

 

Allow me to thank ‘appachan’ for his contribution by connecting Zechariah 2:10 with John 4:23-26.

 

Matthew 5:17 is another place where Christ told us about His deity. When He said, “I am come …,” it tells us about His pre-existence.

 

Matthew 8:1-4 is another place where He claimed His deity. After touching the leper He did not cleanse Himself. He showed that He is infinitely holy and nothing defiles Him.

 

Shalom Malekim!!!

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