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# 01457 :  Please Help Me.....
Dear All,

I am a brethren believer and I was baptised in the year 1992 along with some youths in our assembly. But in fact, I accpeted Jesus Christ as my personal saviour last year only. In 1992, I took baptism only as per advise from one of my friend.

Pls advise whether I have to re-baptize now? If so, how? Any punishments?

Now, this thought is pricking me since last year..but I am unable to disclose this fact to the assembly members now..I can't...that is my position...Trust me.

Help me please...anyone!

Post by : brethren1979  View Profile    since : 22 Nov 2007


Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 22 Nov 2007 6:00:43 AM Close
Dear brethren 1979

Water baptism is known as Believers’ baptism, because it has been done after one who believe in Jesus Christ. Without believing in Christ Jesus this baptism has no value.

Some examples from the Word of God.

(1) Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

(a) Thos who gladly received his word
(b) Were baptized.

(2) Act 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

(a) Simon himself believed
(b) He was baptized.

(3) Act 18:8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.

(a) Believed on the Lord
(b) Were baptized.

John’s baptism was baptism of repentance, when they believed in Jesus Christ again they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

So you do not need to be ashamed, explain the matter to the elders of the assembly as well as to your parents and arrange a re-baptism. Please make sure that you got the assurance of salvation.

When baptize a person, he has to tell his/her testimony in the assembly as he has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal saviour, are you did that?

Also a proclamation is done at the time of baptism, as believing in Lord Jesus Christ.

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 22 Nov 2007 1:18:15 PM Close
Dear 'brethren1979,'

Brother Sambudhanoor has given a good answer to your dilemma. The only difference I have with his answer is that you should not be asking for a "re-baptism." What you will be asking for is to be baptized as a believer. It should be your only baptism to be called a disciple of Christ, as we read in Matthew 28:19.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : brethren1979   View Profile   Since : 23 Nov 2007 2:09:33 AM Close
Thank you brothers for your reply but I am still worried!!

Is it compulsory for me to take a baptism now? If I didn't take, any punishment for me? Hope I will not miss the eternity anyway.

If at all I admit this to the elders of my assembly, they will not arrange for a "re-baptism" and moreover, I am not able to disclose this fact to anybody now due to various reasons.

Pls guide me what to do?

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Reply by : prabhudas1   View Profile   Since : 23 Nov 2007 6:31:49 AM Close
Dear Brethren
i am a Brethren Evangilist. i was studied in Kerala. now i am working in Andhra Pradesh, india. please pray for me and my work for Lord.

Prabhu das,
www.prabhu.org.in

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Reply by : mathewpaul   View Profile   Since : 23 Nov 2007 8:19:10 AM Close
I am so glad that our dear 'brethren1979' has come out in the open. Unfortunately there are many like him in the assemblies these days. But they are not honost and go on guilty before God. I personally dealt with two cases.

Dear brother,are you worried about people or what will they think? I think you should worry about what the Lord thinks. If you want to have a good conscience before Him, you should tell the truth to every one. I know it is heart breaking. Brokenness is a sign of a true believer. And it will honour God and you will be honoured by the Lord. You will have a good conscience before Him and who knows it may be the beginning of a mighty rivival in your assembly!

Your eternity does not depend on your baptism. But your usefulness to God and His kingdom surely depends on it.

As GPK said, you are not getting re-baptized. In the sight of God you are not a baptized beleiver. You are a disobedient child.

Go ahead brother. Get baptized. Our sincere prayers are with you. God bless.

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Reply by : brethren1979   View Profile   Since : 23 Nov 2007 9:50:54 PM Close
Thank you brother. But I am grateful to you, if you could explicate the below statement?

+++Your eternity does not depend on your baptism. But your usefulness to God and His kingdom surely depends on it.++++++

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Reply by : mathewpaul   View Profile   Since : 24 Nov 2007 12:20:24 AM Close
Dear 1979, I said your eternity doesnot depend on your baptism. Eternal life is a gift of God. It is freely discharged based on the work of Christ on Calvary. It is by grace. It can only be achieved by repentance, faith and calling upon the name of the Lord. I am not giving Biblical refs. since you know it.

So, if you repented of your sins and calledupon Him in faith, you are saved(Rom,8:1).

But that is only the salvation of your spirit from the penalty of sin. But we all need to be saved daily from the power of sin. It is a life time process. The Bible calls it the salvation of your soul from the power of sin. Remember our spirit is already saved from punishment by the grace of God.

This salvation of the soul from the power of sin is experienced day by day as we obey God's Word daily. Remember our Lord was talking to His disciples when He said, "What shall it profit a man ...if he lose his own soul?"(Mt.16:26).

Salvation of the soul can only be achieved by daily bearing our corss. Cross stands for shame and agony. Yes, as you want to obey God, you will need to experience shame and agony. Brokenness will be there; it must be there. And some times obedience is very costly. That is why they refrain from it.

I am afraid, many believers to day around the world only enjoy partial salvation. They do not have victory over sin because they are not willing to read the word and obey it at any cost.

Remember, every thing in Christian life is by grace; but every thing is not free. You need to pay the price(Rev.3:18). Tragically many of us lives only on the 'hand out' which God has given. They are not willing to pay the price.

2Pt.1:6-11 talks about adding other ingrediants to our faith. Faith is a gift from God. Other ingrediants we acquire by our constant effort, again, by God's grace. When you add these things to your faith, you will have an abundant entrance to eternal kingdom. Others who did not build on the foundation properly, will also reach there, as though through fire(1Cor.3:15)

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Reply by : mathewpaul   View Profile   Since : 24 Nov 2007 12:28:46 AM Close
Dear 1979, I said your eternity doesnot depend on your baptism. Eternal life is a gift of God. It is freely discharged based on the work of Christ on Calvary. It is by grace. It can only be achieved by repentance, faith and calling upon the name of the Lord.

So, if you repented of your sins and calledupon Him in faith, you are saved(Rom,8:1).

But that is only the salvation of your spirit from the penalty of sin. But we all need to be saved daily from the power of sin. It is a life time process. The Bible calls it the salvation of your soul from the power of sin. Remember our spirit is already saved from punishment by the grace of God.

This salvation of the soul from the power of sin is experienced day by day as we obey God's Word daily. Remember our Lord was talking to His disciples when He said, "What shall it profit a man ...if he lose his own soul?"(Mt.16:26).

Salvation of the soul can only be achieved by daily bearing our corss. Cross stands for shame and agony. Yes, as you want to obey God, you will need to experience shame and agony. Brokenness will be there; it must be there. And some times obedience is very costly. That is why many refrain from it.

I am afraid, many believers to day around the world only enjoy partial salvation. They do not have victory over sin because they are not willing to read the word and obey it at any cost.

Remember, every thing in Christian life is by grace; but every thing is not free. You need to pay the price(Rev.3:18). Tragically many of us live only on the 'hand out' which God has given. They are not willing to pay the price.

2Pt.1:6-11 talks about adding other ingrediants to our faith. Faith is a gift from God. Other ingrediants we acquire by our constant effort, again, by God's grace. When you add these things to your faith, you will have an abundant entrance to eternal kingdom. Others who did not build on the foundation properly, will also reach there, as though through fire(1Cor.3:15).
May God give you grace as you want to obey Him.

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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 24 Nov 2007 2:52:41 AM Close
There are few errors in Matthew Paul's explanation.

1) It is not the Spirit that receives the Salvation, but it is the Soul.

2) The Salvation once received need no daily renewal, but daily disobedience resulitng in sins need to be repented of. God forgives them, but He will chastise for the daily sins that any one commits.

3) Baptism is not required for either receiving salvation nor does "Salvation of the soul can be only achieved by daily bearing our cross" (This is a gross error in teaching). Salvation is received only once.

4) There is nothing like 'partial salvation' and 'full salvation'. The forgiveness is done in full; not in partial.

5) "brethren1979" does not need to take baptism any more and yet can have eternal life, and he will not be liable for any punishments. He pays penalty for the sins he commits on daily basis on the earth; not in heaven.

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Reply by : mathewpaul   View Profile   Since : 24 Nov 2007 7:30:52 AM Close
If there are errors in my explanation, I will very gladly take it back.

Let me clarify. We teach salvation in three tenses. We are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. There is nothing new in it.

We teach that once a person is saved, he/she is saved for ever. This is a gift of God. No works of any sort is required. It is based on Christ's work on Calvary.

When I used the term 'salvation of the soul', I meant the life of a believer here on earth being daily saved from the power of sin. Remember our Lord was talking to His disciples in Mt.16 where this expression occurs.

As a person cannot be born into God's family by his own effort, no person can live a holy life with one's own effort. For that each person has to continually depend on the Spirit of God for His help. And as the Spirit of God instructs us by the Word of God, we need to continually obey His voice. Without this a believer will be living like 'ordinary men' (ICor.3:3). The question of carnality comes here. That is, born again ones living like ordinary men. This can be avoided by each one daily bearing the cross. See Mt.16 reference above. And by daily obedience to the Word of God.

When I used the term 'partial salvation' I meant that many believers are still living in besetting sins and in presumptous sins. The salvation which God offers has in it the power to over come sin. But many are not enjoying it in daily life. Only the enjoyment is partial. Salvation is full and free! But every believer is not enjoying it fully.

As for the issue of 1979's baptism, salvation does not depend on baptism. No one needs to be baptized to go to heaven.

But if some one saved must have a clear conscience before God, one must obey the Word in waters of baptism as scripture clearly teaches us that baptism saves us from an evil conscience (I Pt.3:21). Only an oedient child can be used of God for His glory! Usefulness depends on obedience.

May the Lord help us. To His name be all glory.
Amen.

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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 24 Nov 2007 9:38:20 AM Close
Biblical explanation of "Salvation" is not compatible with Matthew Paul's explanation/teaching of "Salvation" in three tenses. The word, "Salvation" first occurs in Genesis 49:18 "I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD" next it occurs in Exodus 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.

In the New Testament it occurs in Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; next it occurs in in Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Nowhere does it mean that it is the continual receiving of 'salvation' for the forgiveness of daily sins a saved one commits. Matthew Chapter 16 does not have a word like, "Salvation".

Living holy life after a person is saved is essential, otherwise, God will certainly make him to pay penalty for his sins on this earth in the form of sickess, or disturbance in family. God forgives sins of a saved person when he repents of such sins he daily commits, but there is no escape from physical ailments. That is why many saved persons are sick and suffer. God answers prayers and reduces the intensity of such chastisement. There is no punishment in eternity, but no one escapes the suffering in body before death. That is why a believer is required to live a holy life after receiving salvation. The forgiveness a believer receives after receiving salvation is not a present tense salvation, nor is future tense salvation.

'brethren1979' would have taken baptism certainly after giving few positive answers to the baptizer and his confession is recorded in heaven. He has already testified before congregation that he is saved, unless he was totally lying. I do not think any body can lie at the time of baptism. There is, therefore, no necessity for him to have baptism now.

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 5:27:33 AM Close
Dear asdpoilkj

Salvation is eternal, whoever believe in Jesus Christ, will inherit the eternal life, there no doubt about that. The redemption which we inherited is for our body, soul and spirit.

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Redemption of our body is not yet attained, it will be happened at the rapture, we will resurrect with the glorified body, it is future event. So saying we have been saved thus inherited the eternal life, we are being saved from the power of sin by the help of Holy Spirit and we will be saved at rapture the whole body, soul and Spirit, is the right interpretation as per the Word of God.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

We have been sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of the redemption of our body. The seal of the Holy Spirit shows that it is in possession of the Al-mighty God.

Contd…….

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 5:28:50 AM Close
Salvation or regeneration is happening in our spirit thus our soul become redemptive.

Soul is a common factor in animal and human, but the spirit in human distinguish them from the animal.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, indeed the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Eph 4:23 and that ye be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
Eph 4:24 and put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.

Advising brethren 1979 not to take believers baptism is a wrong concept, as he himself declared that he was baptized when he was a un-believer, even if he confessed it is vocally only without accepting it in heart. Last year only he accepted Jesus Christ as his personal Saviour, so he need to obey the commandment of our Lord to undergo believers’ baptism.

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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 7:35:14 AM Close
Dear Sambudhanoor,

Salvation is eternal, but salvation is not attained on daily basis. Salvation is attained once and that is final. Forgiveness of sins that a believers obtains on his daily sins is not salvation.

Spirit is God's. Spirit can not have salvation. Soul of man only can have salvation. Why are we trying to distinguish between animals and man? We are not talking about salvation of animals.

About baptism, 'brethrn1979' is born-again on the day of his baptism and he has attained salvation on that day because he affirmed faith in Jesus on that day. If has accepted Jesus last year as personal savior, he misunderstood that he has accepted him as savior only last year. Jesus was his savior from the day he had affirmed him in the presence of congregation.

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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 7:41:05 AM Close
Dear asdpoilkj,
We read in Hebrew chap 9 as follows” 3 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.” Here we read about three appearances of our Lord Jesus Christ. In verse 25, he is appearing in the presence of God for us as our advocate (I john 2:1), to constantly plead our cause before the father to deliver from the power of sin. No born again person can deny the fact that even after the experience of new birth he commits sin. When a believer commits sin Satan accuses him before God, but Christ defends, on the basis of the blood that he shed for him. In verse 26, we read about his another appearance at the end of the ages, to put away sin. That clearly refers to his incarnation as a human being to die for us on the cross of Calvary. This is to deliver the sinner from the penalty of sin. In verse 28 we read again about appearance of our Lord, his glorious second coming, to redeem us from the very presence of sin. Hence salvation is certainly three fold. We are delivered from the penalty of sin when we accept Christ and by yielding to him we are daily being delivered from the power of sin, and finally when our dear Saviour appears we are going to be delivered from the very presence of sin
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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 7:47:39 AM Close
Dear brother,

How many baptisms we should have if the salvation is three fold? Every evening we may have to take baptism. Every day we sin; every day we confess; every day we receive forgiveness. Obviously every day we need to be baptised. Is it what the Bible teaches?

Few brothers are misunderstanding about being "born again" and having daily purification of hearts, mind and soul. We are not 'born-again' daily, but only once. That is the salvation.

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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 8:20:49 AM Close
If we read Hebrews 9th Chapter in KJV we find no such things as "COPIES".

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: (Hebrews 9:24)

It is the "figures".

That word means that which is formed after a model, pattern, or type.

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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 8:29:25 AM Close
dear asdpoilkj
i used the bible gateway.com to copy paste the passage i refered to where it appears as mentioned in my post.you may ref to the kjv itself to read that passage but pl let us know what you understand about these three apperances of Jesus
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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 8:45:39 AM Close
Dear Brother,

Your question is off the topic; however I will answer your question.

Hebrews 9th Chapter deals with the subject of showing how Jesus is the high priest and he is superior to Jewish priest.

Ancient utensils and the tabernacles are presented along with the description of how high priest in the Old Testament performed services once a year. That was a symbolic presentation the things to come. Christ came and he is the shadow of the things to come. He is now the most perfect tabernacle. His blood removes the sins of all those in the past ages, and the present age and the future generations. He is the mediator and the new covenant. The first covenant was ratified by the blood of Jesus. The offering of the blood is done once and that is final. This chapter is not talking about three fold salvation nor is it talking about recurring salvation.

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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 10:15:23 AM Close
dear asdpoilkj
the thread strated with the subject of baptism and the posts that followed had salvation too discussed, and the portions of the scripture, i have quoted has definitely to do with salvation of our past present and future.how am i off topic ?
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Reply by : asdpoilkj   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 12:27:46 PM Close

I have made my point of view clear on the question 'brethren1979' had, and I will not be available to answer/discuss/argue, on this thread to any body, irrespective of what others write about this topic.

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Nov 2007 11:41:35 PM Close
Dear asdpoilkj

Eternal Salvation which we receive when we believe in Jesus Christ is a one time process only, nothing need to add in that and it is secured in the hand of God the Father and our Lord.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
Joh 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

The Eternal Salvation we received is for our Soul, Spirit and body. As the redemption of our body is not yet attained, we are living in this fallen body and we need to overcome/save from the power of sin by the help of Holy Spirit, that why it is saying that being saved from the power of sin.

As the redemption of our body is not yet attained and it will be happened at the rapture, thus we say we will be saved, because it is future thing to happen.

Being saved from the power of sin or we will be saved by the redemption of the body is not to attain the ETERNAL SALVATION but it the process of that salvation which we received.

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 27 Nov 2007 5:15:40 AM Close
Dear Brother 1979,
Greetings to you in the precious name of our Lord Saviour Jesus.
I think the war is over, what do you think? Did you have any hurt feeling? Don’t be so because this is normal in the world. But Christians fight with the sword, the word of God . so there is spark and fire.
I don’t know your name but let me tell you, I love you so much.
As I am your brother in Christ, my opinion is this: Open you bible and read these verses. John 14:16-17, 16:7-13, Romans 8:23, 8:26-27. Have you red it? If you want read few more times.
Now, close your bible, close all the doors and windows (eyes, ears, tongue, thoughts act), take a deep breath and hold it for few seconds and release it, do it again and again until you comfort. Now open your inner year and listen to the Great Teacher, the Comforter, and the powerful Holy Spirit in you. He is in you to guide you, so listen to him, He lov...es you dear.
Remember your word you said on 22 Nov. “Now, this thought is pricking me since last year..but I am unable to disclose this fact to the assembly members now..I can't...that is my position...Trust me.”
Whom do you think who gives you this pricking? No one can guide you better than Him.
Do, as He asks you to do.
May God bless you abundantly.
With lots of love
Santhosh
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Reply by : joy2   View Profile   Since : 10 Jul 2008 4:44:00 AM Close
For any one who is interested. The NT word translated as 'natural man' literally is 'soulish man'. See Dictionary defenitions below.

1Co 2:14 (Vincent's Word Study)
The natural man (ψυχικὸς ἄνθρωπος
See on Rom_11:4, on the distinction between ψυχή soul, life, and πνεῦμα spirit. The contrast is between a man governed by the divine Spirit and one from whom that Spirit is absent. But ψυχικὸς natural, is not equivalent to σαρκικός fleshy. Paul is speaking of natural as contrasted with spiritual cognition applied to spiritual truth, and therefore of the ψυχή soul, as the organ of human cognition, contrasted with the πνεῦμα spirit, as the organ of spiritual cognition. The man, therefore, whose cognition of truth depends solely upon his natural insight is ψυχικός natural, as contrasted with the spiritual man (πνευματικός to whom divine insight is imparted. In other words, the organ employed in the apprehension of spiritual truth characterizes the man. Paul therefore “characterizes the man who is not yet capable of understanding divine wisdom as ψυχικός, i.e., as one who possesses in his ψυχή soul, simply the organ of purely human cognition, but has not yet the organ of religious cognition in the πνεῦμα spirit” (Dickson). It is perhaps impossible to find an English word which will accurately render ψυχικός. Psychic is simply the Greek transcribed. We can do no better than hold by the A.V. natural.

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Reply by : joy2   View Profile   Since : 10 Jul 2008 4:46:48 AM Close
Cntd...

1Co 2:14
the natural man: ψυχικος [Strong's G5591], the animal man, one who lives in a natural state, and under the influence of his animal passions; for ψυχη [Strong's G5590] means the inferior and sensual part of man, in opposition to the νους [Strong's G3563] understanding, or πνευμα [Strong's G4151], the spirit. 1Co_15:44, 1Co_15:46; Jam_3:15; Jude v:19

G5591
ψυχικός
psuchikos
Thayer Definition:
1) of or belonging to breath
1a) having the nature and characteristics of the breath
1a1) the principal of animal life, which men have in common with the brutes
1b) governed by breath
1b1) the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion

G5591
ψυχικός
psuchikos
Total KJV Occurrences: 6
natural, 4
1Co_2:14, 1Co_15:44 (2), 1Co_15:46
sensual, 2
Jam_3:15, Jud_1:19

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