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# 01473 :  Can a saved person lose his salvation if he sins?
Hello Dear Bretheren,

I believe salvation can never be lost. Pls post the opinions quots from the bible in this matter.

Regards,

Bejoy

Post by : bejoyaranmula  View Profile    since : 9 Dec 2007


Reply by : bejoyaranmula   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 8:18:17 AM Close
Dear Brethren,

Nobody is interested in this subject or busy with other postings? Please tell me how do i conway the message that salvation canot be lost?

Regards,

Bejoy

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 10:47:49 AM Close
Dear Bijoy,

It is good to here from you.
Before I give you any answer can I ask you few questions with your permission?
In the treat of "why I love Jesus", you have mention like this “I love my Lord Jesus Christ because he not only loved me fist but also he gave his life on the cross for me,bore all my sins, took all the shame and the wrath of god on himself which i due on me. This endless love is drawing me more and more closer to him every day. May his name be glorified.”
“ ………… all my sins,………………took all the shame and the wrath of god on himself which i due on me.”

The question I am asking is regarding these words is that, what you would like to say about all my sins means? Is Jesus died for your past sin only? Not for your present and future sin?
Is it not Jesus died for the children who is going to born in the future?
Think about it, as long as you are a born again person and reading the bible every day, the answer of this question is good enough to understand your doubts.
For your reference just few verse from the bible (if you think you need more verses please let me know);
Cont...

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Reply by : puthusalem   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 10:51:34 AM Close
“1 John 1: 5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

“1 John 2: 1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense —Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”

May God bless you
Your brother in Christ with love
Santhosh

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 9 Dec 2007 11:52:17 AM Close
Dear brother Bejoy,

Please forgive us for the lack of interest in your original post. The question is of vital importance. Once again the answer shows the vast gulf between Christianity and other beliefs.

There are many scriptures that teach the truth of the wonderful fact that once an individual has truly accepted Christ as Saviour and Lord there is no power able to destroy that relationship. I am sure others will quote some of them.

Personally, I love to fall back on the words of Peter in his first Epistle (1 Pet.1:18-21). The price paid for my redemption was the precious blood of Jesus. Only God could demand it. Only God could provide it. Satan cannot re-establish ownership over me because he could never equal that price paid to free me from his power.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 12:15:25 AM Close
Dear Bejoyaranmula

Salvation is not earned by any work of the Human being, and it will not loose by the work of a Human.

Eph 2:8 -9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Rom 11:6 But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work.

Our Salvation is secured in our Lord’s Hand and in the Hand of God the Father:

Joh 10:28 -29 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.

As a believer we are not supposed to sin, if we sin our Advocate Jesus Christ is there to mediate between us the God the Father, he will forgive us, we need to confess it to our Lord.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

If you want to study more about Security of Salvation you may visit the following thread in the Moderated forum:

http://www.brethren.in/forum_new/forum_posts.asp?TID=4&PN=1

there are 5 pages.

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Reply by : bejoyaranmula   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 2:22:59 AM Close
Thank you dear brethren for your kind reply. I expect more posting in this regard from all. That will help me study it more deeply.

What if a born again person sins and conitues to sin knowing that he will not lose his salvation? So he will be with the holy people(in heven) but had done un-holy things.


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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 7:14:40 AM Close
Dear bejoyaranmula,

This question was discussed earlier. Since you are interested to discuss this sugbject, may I ask the following:

1. In the light that in Hebrews 5:9 we read about "eternal salvation," what is your understanding about that expression?

2. Are you willing to undertake a study on this subject, rather that agreeing or disagreeing with another person?

3. If you are interested to agree with the Word of God, then I am willing and happy to study this together with you from the Word of God. What do you say?

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 10 Dec 2007 7:24:41 PM Close
Jesus our saviour finally presents the bride,faultless,blameless,impeccable to God.if there is a possibility of a saved person losing his salvation upon sinning,the bride presnted would be a maimed one,which i think is impossible.there are enough scirptural support to this truth.i am a little finger in the body of christ and i can't think of christs body without me,the little finger
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Reply by : bejoyaranmula   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 2:43:50 AM Close
DEAR BRO.GEORGE P. KOSHY,

ITS NOT AT ALL ABOUT AGREEING OR DISAGREEING. I JUST WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. I AM LOOKING FORWARD FOR YOUR POSTINGS. INFACT EVERYBODY CAN BE BENEFITED FROM THIS.

THANKS & REGARDS,


BEJOY

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 6:53:50 AM Close
Dear bejoyaranmula,

It is good to know that you want to learn along with all of us. Are you willing to spend some time? If so, we will start this study, as I itemized in three questions above.

We have to understand the meaning of the word "eternal" from the Word of God. This could be achieved only from the scriptures. Please collect all the verses with the expression "eternal" or "eternity." There could be about 48 of them. Then group them according to context. Please post them.

The speed with which you do this is an indication of the urgency and willingness to learn. Others could also join this exercise.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : bejoyaranmula   View Profile   Since : 11 Dec 2007 7:27:13 AM Close
Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.

Genesis 21:33
Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beersheba, and there he called upon the name of the LORD, the Eternal God.

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."


Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.


Regards,

Bejoy

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 18 Dec 2007 2:30:47 AM Close
Dear bejoyaranmula

Your question is answered in the Moderated forum in the following thread:

http://www.brethren.in/forum_new/forum_posts.asp?TID=4&PN=5

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Reply by : fellowchristian   View Profile   Since : 20 Dec 2007 2:45:25 AM Close
The Word of God is the answer for any doubt concerning our soul and eternal life of any man on earth.

1John 1 :5
This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.


6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Now let us look into the problem or rather the question.
When a believer sins, as he being a person walking in the light, he just slips away into darkness.
His option is to come and confess, he has to do it the moment he feels that he has slipped into the darkness.
When he confesses, The verse 9 comes applicable. “He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”

If he refuse to confess, then verse 6 comes applicable.
He continues walking in darkness,
the scripture calls him a ‘lier’ and proclaims that he is not practicing truth.
Lord would surely deal with him in His ultimate Wisdom and supreme Justice.
Why should we be legalistic, when the word of God is clear.
Our primary option is to obey the word of God !

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Reply by : fellowchristian   View Profile   Since : 20 Dec 2007 2:55:38 AM Close

(contd)
For a child of God who loves Him and subit himself to his lordship, the promise is there,

Romans8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
May the peace of God be with you.
'fellowchristian'
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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 20 Dec 2007 8:54:40 AM Close
Dear readers,

This subject is a very complex one. In order for anyone to properly understand and find comfort in this biblical truth; an absolutely positive truth of the bible; we need to know the whole doctrine of salvation. Until that is done we will have this nagging question of loosing salvation lurking in the back of our mind.

I used to doubt; not any more. You can also be; if you seriously study this subject. This would require some serious studying. There are no short cuts. Few verses here and there would not do it. That may just lead to end-less and useless debates and doubts.

If you are truly serious, please go back to the archives of KB Net and study (I mean study- don’t just read) George P Koshy’s ‘So great salvation’… I believe there are multiple parts to it, like part one & two or even three. It may take months to study. Once you prayerfully study it you will know why our salvation cannot be lost, because it explains how we receive our salvation.

Here is a simple illustration. When I fathered my daughters or my wife gave birth to them, what in the world or outside this world could un-do that process? Trust the word of God – our salvation is thousand times more secure than my illustration.

My recommendation to you is take time to study; there are no short cuts.

Regards,

Tom J

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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 21 Dec 2007 1:06:50 PM Close
JUST TO PONDER UPON:
Heb 6:1-6
You can reject your salvation, but you can’t lose it because of sin. There is no opposition between scriptures on eternal security. God's part by giving salvation is eternal but our FREE WILL can reject it. Even for the greatest gift of salvation God knocks at door and not forcing us. You can get a depth and maturity out of the word if you can harmonize apparent contradictions in scripture.

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Reply by : tomj   View Profile   Since : 21 Dec 2007 1:53:08 PM Close
Dear sajimaniyattu,

If ‘free will’ determines salvation let me ask you this ---

Ephesians 2:1 describes. We who are “dead in our trespasses and sins” have been “made alive” through Christ.

Who made your salvation possible based on this? Your ‘free will’ that was ‘dead in trespasses and sins’ or God?

A prisoner has freedom to walk. He can walk according to his ‘free will’. But as far as the prison walls allow him to walk, he can walk. Every man on this earth is ‘deceitful and desperately wicked.’ He is bound by the wall of sin. His ‘free will’ will not allow him to get out of those walls.

This is all the ‘free-will’ man has… which is not FREE at all..!

Now please check what Eph 2:1 is all about..

Also check what Eph 1:4 --------- what does it mean ‘before the foundation of the world’?

PS..

Sorry, I deviated from the thread, but couldn’t help commenting on the ‘Free will’..

Regards,

Tom J

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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 22 Dec 2007 1:22:39 AM Close
Dear Br. Tom,
<<...who made salvation and what does means before foundation?>>

Salvation is a free gift for whole human beings but one who accepts and believes it can receive it. Our decision or free will is the basis of receiving it. 1 John 2:2 It is he who is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world's.

I will try to explain. In a marriage suppose invitations passed to 100 people and made all arrangements for the marriage. They arranged new special marriage dresses and gifts etc for those 100 people and say well before the marriage I made everything for those invited.


<<... His free will, will not allow him to get out of the wall>>

"Wall of Sin" is not created by God, it was a result of Sin. Jesus opened the door of this wall and it is open for all to receive this wonderful gift of Salvation but we must decide upon it. If somebody rejects evenif he knew well about this offer – Hebrew 6 - and go back to the same room is his own decision.

Saji

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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 22 Dec 2007 5:09:27 AM Close
the question raised is whether a saved person can lose his salvation when he commits sin.as regards a person who has shut himself, not willing to accept the freely offerred gift of salvation,the question of losing does'nt arise at all.just as the process of physical birth is ireversible,the spiritual birth too cannot be undone,reversed.we are begotten by the seed of the word of God.salvation is a gift from God.its unimaginable that God would take this gift back.he would certainly chasten and make us pay for straying away from him,but will not snatch away th gift given.apostle paul says nothing can seperate us from our saviour.Romans 8:38-39"FOR I AM PERSUADED THAT NEITHER DEATH,NOR LIFE,NOR ANGLES,NOR PRINCIPALITIES,NOR POWERS,NOR THINGS PRESENT,NOR THNGS TO COME, NOR HEIGHT,NOR DEPTH,NOR ANY OTHER CREATION,SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD,WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS,OUR LORD"
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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 22 Dec 2007 7:06:12 AM Close
Dear Br. Wilson,

My understanding from the Word of God is that a saved person cannot lose his salvation when he commits sin. But on the same time, one who rejects willingly that I do not need this salvation and God, after a mature believer (as mentioned in Hebrew 6: 3-6) can REJECT salvation from his free will of rejection.

Even if in a physical birth the sonship is irreversible, following situation can arise:

1. Once become mature and knows benefits of sonship, can REJECT his sonship by not accepting the gifts from his father.
2. A Child who from immaturity saying “this is not my father” is a different issue.

I believe Hebrew 6: 3-6 says about a mature believer rejecting this wonderful salvation by HIMSELF.

Saji

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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 23 Dec 2007 9:52:16 AM Close

dear bro saji,
your understanding that a saved person cannot lose his salvation is absolutely right,but your understanding that a saved person is capable of rejecting the salvation once obtained ,i think is wrong. when a person accepts christ,God enters into an eternal covenat relationship with him,engraves that person on his palms,writes his name in the book of life,and declares him as his begotten son,on account of this there is great rejoicing in the heavens.these are just a few things that happen when a person receieves christ apart from many other deeper things that we read in the word of God.i do not believe Heb 6:3-6 teaches that a there is a possibility of our losing our salvation,for i firmly believe that God's word does not contradict itself.even for the sake of argument if we accept that the ref under consideration means losing our salvation,we would end up with the absurd conclusion that our saviour has failed in his duty of presenting us fautless and blameless to God the father, a promise and challenge that he has taken up.i wish i could write many other things that are on my mind,but i am not used to writing lengthy posts.
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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 4:51:45 AM Close
Dear Br. Wilson,

Thanks for your understanding about the Salvation. I still believe that salvation once given is not taken away by God, or Satan or our sin, or any details mentioned in Rom 8:38-39 except by a mature Christian himself.

If we refer to Hebrew 6:4-6 without looking to theologies, by stating the true meaning of the passage by an examination of the words and phrases in detail, observing, in general, that it refers to a mature Christian.

The phrase “it is impossible” obviously and properly denotes ABSOLUTE impossibility and not great difficulty. The word - ἀδύνατον adunaton - occurs only in the New Testament in the following places, in all which it denotes that the thing could not be done. Mat_19:26; Mar_10:27, Luk_18:27, Act_14:8, Rom_8:3, Heb_6:18, Heb_10:4, Heb_11:6,

In regards to the covenant between God and man as mentioned by you, is a deal between two persons. In Psalms 89:34 – My covenant will I not break, not alter the thing that is gone out of my lips – on the other hand read 2 Timothy 2:10-13. Whatever be the attributes of salvation, God will not break it and abides faithful. This is my understanding and let me reiterate that we can get a depth and maturity out of the word if you can harmonize apparent contradictions in scripture.

Saji

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 9:18:29 AM Close
This verses Hebrew 6: 4 -6 is saying about apostasy.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Salvation which we received by the faith in Jesus Christ is Eternal, Eternal means never ends, it is secured in our Lord’s hand and God the Father’s hand (John 10:28-29). We have been sealed by the Holy Spirit, our redemption is eternal and forever.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

It is now earned by any of humans works and it will not loose by human work, a true believer cannot make any apostasy or God will allow him to do so because it is eternal and forever. The people who make apostasy is not genuine believers, they are fake believers who professed as Christians.

An explanation can be seen in the following web thread:

http://www.brethren.in/forum_new/forum_posts.asp?TID=6

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 9:19:50 AM Close
Following are the Comments from William Macdonald:

Hebrew 6:4 We come now to the heart of the warning against apostasy. It applies to a class of people whom it is impossible to restore again to repentance. Apparently these people had once repented (though no mention is made of their faith in Christ). Now it is clearly stated that a renewed repentance is impossible.

Who are these people? The answer is given in verses 4 and 5. In examining the great privileges which they enjoyed, it should be noticed that all these things could be true of the unsaved. It is never clearly stated that they had been born again. Neither is any mention made of such essentials as saving faith, redemption by His blood, or eternal life.

They had once been enlightened. They had heard the gospel of the grace of God. They were not in darkness concerning the way of salvation. Judas Iscariot had been enlightened but he rejected the light.

They tasted the heavenly gift. The Lord Jesus is the heavenly Gift. They had tasted of Him but had never received Him by a definite act of faith. It is possible to taste without eating or drinking. When men offered wine mixed with gall to Jesus on the cross, He tasted it but He would not drink it (Mat_27:34). It is not enough to taste Christ; unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, that is, unless we truly receive Him as Lord and Savior, we have no life in us (Joh_6:53).

They had become partakers of the Holy Spirit. Before we jump to the conclusion that this necessarily implies conversion, we should remember that the Holy Spirit carries on a preconversion ministry in men's lives. He sanctifies unbelievers (1Co_7:14), putting them in a position of external privilege. He convicts unbelievers of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment (Joh_16:8). He leads men to repentance and points them to Christ as their only hope. Men may thus partake of the Holy Spirit's benefits without being indwelt by Him.

Contd……..

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 9:22:19 AM Close
Hebrew 6:5 They had tasted the good word of God. As they heard the gospel preached, they were strangely moved and drawn to it. They were like the seed that fell on rocky ground; they heard the word and immediately received it with joy, but they had no root in themselves. They endured for a while, but when tribulation or persecution arose on account of the word, they promptly fell away (Mat_13:20-21).

They had tasted the powers of the age to come. Powers here means “miracles.” The age to come is the Millennial Age, the coming era of peace and prosperity when Christ will reign over the earth for one thousand years. The miracles which accompanied the preaching of the gospel in the early days of the church (Heb_2:4) were a foretaste of signs and wonders which will be performed in Christ's kingdom. These people had witnessed these miracles in the first century, in fact, they might have participated in them. Take, for instance, the miracles of the loaves and fishes. After Jesus had fed the five thousand, the people followed Him to the other side of the sea. The Savior realized that, though they had tasted a miracle, they did not really believe in Him. He said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled” (Joh_6:26).

Hebrew 6:6 If they fall away, after enjoying the privileges just enumerated, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance. They have committed the sin of apostasy. They have reached the place where the lights go out on the way to hell.

The enormous guilt of apostates is indicated in the words since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame (v. 6b). This signifies a deliberate, malicious spurning of Christ, not just a careless disregard of Him. It indicates a positive betrayal of Him, a joining of forces against Him, and a ridiculing of His Person and work.

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Reply by : wilson609   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 10:17:55 AM Close


Dear bro saji,
I am unable to understand as to what you mean by saying that a mature Christian is capable of taking away the salvation offered to him. A mature Christian would on the contrary would see that he becomes more like Christ, endeavouring to conform to the image of Christ as he sojourns in this world. Those not matured can stray away from God, as the prodigal son did, by walking out of his father’s home.inspite of his choice to walk out and lead a life according to his will, he did not succeed in severing his relationship with his father. However I am happy that you see in Heb 6:4-6 only an apparent contradiction. Since the contradiction is just apparent I think you will have no difficulty in harmonizing those verses with other which assure us that our salvation is eternally safe and secure.. You did quote some Greek words, but let me humbly confess to you that I do not know Greek or Hebrew
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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 2:00:59 PM Close
Hebrew explanation from Barnes Commentary:
Heb 6:4 -
For it is impossible - It is needless to say that the passage here Heb_6:4-6, has given occasion to much controversy, and that the opinions of commentators and of the Christian world are yet greatly divided in regard to its meaning. On the one hand, it is held that the passage is not intended to describe those who are true Christians, but only those who have been awakened and enlightened, and who then fall back; and on the other it is maintained that it refers to those who are true Christians, and who then apostatize. The contending parties have been Calvinists and Arminians; each party, in general, interpreting it according to the views which are held on the question about falling from grace. I shall endeavor, as well as I may be able, to state the true meaning of the passage by an examination of the words and phrases in detail, observing here, in general, that it seems to me that it refers to true Christians; that the object is to keep them from apostasy, and that it teaches that if they should apostatize, it would be impossible to renew them again or to save them. That it refers to true Christians will be apparent from these considerations.
(1) Such is the sense which would strike the great mass of readers. Unless there were some theory to defend, the great body of readers of the New Testament would consider the expression used here as describing true Christians.
continue...
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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 2:02:03 PM Close
(3) This interpretation accords, as I suppose, with the exact meaning of the phrases which the apostle uses. An examination of those phrases will show that he refers to those who are sincere believers. The phrase “it is impossible” obviously and properly denotes absolute impossibility. It has been contended, by Storr and others, that it denotes only great difficulty. But the meaning which would at first strike all readers would be that “the thing could not be done;” that it was not merely very difficult, but absolutely impracticable. The word - ἀδύνατον adunaton - occurs only in the New Testament in the following places, in all which it denotes that the thing could not be done; Mat_19:26; Mar_10:27, “With men this is impossible;” that is, men could not save one who was rich, implying that the thing was wholly beyond human power. Luk_18:27, “the things which are impossible with men are possible with God” - referring to the same case; Act_14:8, “A man of Lystra, impotent in his feet;” that is, who was wholly “unable” to walk; Rom_8:3, “For what the law could not do;” what was absolutely “impossible” for the Law to accomplish; that is, to save people; Heb_6:18, “In which it was impossible for God to lie;” Heb_10:4, “It is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take away sin;” and Heb_11:6, “Without faith it is impossible to please God;” in all of these instances denoting absolute impossibility.
These passages show that it is not merely a great difficulty to which the apostle refers, but that he meant to say that the thing was wholly impracticable; that it could not be done. And if this be the meaning, then it proves that if those referred to should fall away, they could never be renewed. Their case was hopeless, and they must perish: that is, if a true Christian should apostatize, or fall from grace, “he never could be renewed again,” and could not be saved. Paul did not teach that he might fall away and be renewed again as often as he pleased.
Continued ...........
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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 2:03:46 PM Close
He had other views of the grace of God than this; and he meant to teach, that if a man should once cast off true religion, his case was hopeless, and he must perish; and by this solemn consideration - the only one that would be effectual in such a case - he meant to guard them against the danger of apostasy.
For those who were once enlightened - The phrase “to be enlightened” is one that is often used in the Scriptures, and may be applied either to one whose understanding has been enlightened to discern his duty, though he is not converted (compare the note on Joh_1:9); or more commonly to one who is truly converted; see the note on Eph_1:18. It does not of necessity refer to true Christians, though it cannot be denied that it more obviously suggests the idea that the heart is truly changed, and that it is more commonly used in that sense; compare Psa_19:8. Light, in the Scriptures, is the emblem of knowledge, holiness, and happiness, and there is no impropriety here in understanding it in accordance with the more decisive phrases which follow, as referring to true Christians.
And have tasted - To “taste” of a thing means, according to the usage in the Scriptures, to “experience,” or to “understand” it. The expression is derived from the fact that the “taste” is one of the means by which we ascertain the nature or quality of an object; compare Mat_16:28; Joh_8:51; Heb_2:9. The proper idea here is, that they had “experienced” the heavenly gift, or had learned its nature.
The heavenly gift - The gift from heaven, or which pertains to heaven; compare the note on Joh_4:10. The expression properly means some favor or gift which has descended from heaven, and may refer to any of the benefits which God has conferred on man in the work of redemption. It might include the plan of salvation; the forgiveness of sins; the enlightening, renewing, and sanctifying influences of the Holy Spirit, or any one of the graces which that Spirit imparts.
Continued .........
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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 24 Dec 2007 2:05:06 PM Close
The use of the article, however - “the heavenly gift,” limits it to something special, as being conferred directly from heaven, and the connection would seem to demand that we understand it of some “special” favor which could be conferred only on the children of God. It is an expression which “may” be applied to sincere Christians; it is at least doubtful whether it can with propriety be applied to any other.
And were made partakers of the Holy Ghost - Partakers of the influences of the Holy Spirit - for it is only in this sense that we can partake of the Holy Spirit. We “partake” of food when we share it with others; we “partake” of pleasure when we enjoy it with others; we “partake” of spoils in war when they are divided between us and others. So we partake of the influences of the Holy Spirit when we share these influences conferred on his people. This is not language which can properly be applied to anyone but a true Christian; and though it is true that an unpardoned sinner may be enlightened and awakened by the Holy Spirit, yet the language used here is not such as would be likely to be employed to describe his state. It is too clearly expressive of those influences which renew and sanctify the soul. It is as elevated language as can be used to describe the joy of the Christian, and is undoubtedly used in that sense here. If it is not, it would be difficult to find any language which would properly express the condition of a renewed heart. Grotius, Bloomfield, and some others, understood this of the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit. But this is not necessary, and does not accord well with the general description here, which evidently pertains to the mass of those whom the apostle addressed.
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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Dec 2007 1:51:12 AM Close
I see Albert Barnes is the only one saying this portion is saying about the true believer, in his comment on Hebrew 6:6 He says “It is the same as supposing a case which in fact might never occur:”

Comments from John Gill:

“Heb 6:6 - If they shall fall away,.... This is not supposed of true believers, as appears from Heb_6:9 nor is it to be supposed of them that they may fall totally and finally; they may indeed fall, not only into afflictions and temptations, but into sin; and from a lively and comfortable exercise of grace, and from a degree of steadfastness in the Gospel; but not irrecoverably: for they are held and secured by a threefold cord, which can never be broken; by God the Father, who has loved them with an everlasting love, has chosen them in Christ, secured them in the covenant of grace, keeps them by his power, has given them grace, and will give them glory; and by the Son, who has undertook for them, redeemed and purchased them, prays and makes preparations in heaven for them, they are built on him, united to him, and are his jewels, whom he will preserve; and by the Holy Ghost, whose grace is incorruptible, whose personal indwelling is for ever, who himself is the earnest and seal of the heavenly inheritance, and who having begun, will finish the good work of grace: but falling away, so as to perish, may be supposed, and is true of many professors of religion; who may fall from the profession of the Gospel they have made, and from the truth of it, and into an open denial of it; yea, into an hatred and persecution of what they once received the external knowledge of; and so shall fall short of heaven, and into condemnation: for,”.

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Dec 2007 1:52:36 AM Close
Comments from Scofield reference Notes:
Heb 6:4 -

impossible

(Heb_6:4-8) presents the case of Jewish professed believers who halt short of faith in Christ after advancing to the very threshold of salvation, even "going along with" the Holy Spirit in His work of enlightenment and conviction. (Joh_16:8-10). It is not said that they had faith. This supposed person is like the spies at Kadesh-barnea (Deu_1:19-26) who saw the land and had the very fruit of it in their hands, and yet turned back.”(End of Quote).

If we study Eternal Salvation or Everlasting Salvation which we received in faith in Christ Jesus, there are hundreds of verses assures the security of Eternal Salvation and we never doubt about that. When we became a Children of God we have been added to church, as a living stone adding to the Church building.

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Dec 2007 1:54:32 AM Close
Our Eternal Salvation is preserved and Kept in the hands of Almighty God, it never loose. If the human being are in custodian it might have fallen. Thus the human Will has no choice as far as Eternal Salvation is concerned, it has been provided and kept by God himself. But the people who claim and professed to be Christian and make apostasy are the fake ones.

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

SALVATION (Inheritance) is incorruptible and reserved in Heaven by the Power of God, nobody can corrupt it.

1Pe 1:4-5 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled, and unfading, reserved in Heaven for you by the power of God, having been kept through faith to a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time;

Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will in no way cast out.

Rom 11:2 God has not cast away his people whom he foreknew.

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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 25 Dec 2007 1:42:50 PM Close
SALVATION IS A COMPLEX ISSUE AND INORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE REAL MEANING, CONSIDER ALL THE ISSUES LIKE, ETERNAL SALVATION, IRREVERABILITY OF SONSHIP, FREE WILL, GODS PART AND MANS PART IN SALVATION ETC. EXPANDING ONLY ONE OR MANY ASPECTS RATHER THAN FULL ASPECTS MAY GET A WRONG IDEA.

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Reply by : thomasba   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 8:18:42 AM Close
(Same notes posted on Youth forum also)
Here is another explanation to clarify that the salvation can never be lost:

Salvation is the gift of God and God saves the sinners. For this, a sinner should believe in his heart and confess with his mouth. We all know this basic truth..

Now let us say, I the sinner recognised the need for salvation, believed in the Lord Jesus and confessed my sins today (23/03/08).

So, God gave me Salvation today. As you can observe, two parties involved in this deal are me and God. Between the two of us though, there is vast difference of understanding.

You want proof? Here we go:

1) I, cannot remember all the sins I committed since my birth till 23/03/08 (today). But God knows all of them, with all details, much better than me.
OR
GOD KNOWS PAST SINS OF PERSON

2) I am not sure if I am doing any sins right now. But God knows my present sins better than me.
OR
GOD KNOWS PRESENT SINS OF A PERSON..

3) And… here is where I loose out badly! I have no idea about the sin I am going to commit on 30th August 2091 (if I live that long) or even 12th May 2018. But, God knows what sins I would do on those days, and on days in between and days beyond (of course if I am alive)…
OR
GOD KNOWS FUTURE SINS OF A PERSON AS WELL.

So, on 23/03/08 (today), when God forgave my sins and gifted me eternal salvation, He did that with full knowledge of my sins PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE.

Contd...

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Reply by : thomasba   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 8:20:09 AM Close
... Contd

If I were to marry today, and I end up doing a horrible sin on 12th May 2018, then my wife may say “Had I known your nature before, had I known that you were such a sinful man, I would never have married you.. (sob.. sob). I made a BIG MISTAKE marrying a wretched fellow like you”. (By the way I am happily married..).

Do you think God is going to make a similar statement? Do you think God would state on 12th May 2018, after my sin: “Hey sinful fellow, I made a MISTAKE giving you Salvation on 23/03/08”?

See.. that consideration is contrary to the nature of God. So, that is not possible. So, if I am saved once, I will remain saved for ever.. No matter what!

Summary:
1) God saves a person with full awareness of Past, present and future sins. And Future sin will not alter our Positional Salvation.
2) Past goodness (works) or Future goodness of person has no bearing on Salvation

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Reply by : sambudhanoor   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 8:39:11 AM Close
Good answer thomasba, I appreciate it.
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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 8:16:26 PM Close
The question of this topic is:

Can a saved person loose his salvation if he sins?

My answer is a saved person will not loose his salvation if he stays in FAITH.

See the following verses and see it yourself.

HEBREWS:12:14-17

14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.


HEBREWS:6:4-6

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

HEBREWS: 10:26-27

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

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Reply by : Varghese   View Profile   Since : 25 Mar 2008 10:20:13 PM Close
If Sunila’s statement of "My answer is a saved person will not loose his salvation if he stays in FAITH" is correct, then according to her it is possible for someone who strays outside of FAITH to lose his/her salvation.

However, Salivation is a free gift and does not depend on man’s merits. If a free gift is given without our merit, then it cannot be lost based on our lack of merits i.e. if we backslide.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. – John 10:27-28 (NKJV)

Sonship cannot be lost. It is an eternal bond by being adopted into God’s family. When we disobey God and backslide, we lose the fellowship but not the sonship. There is punishment for believers who stray from faith but our salvation is secure.

Our desire to live holy lives must be based on our desire to not grieve the Lord, not on some legalistic terms & fear of losing our salvation.

What I understand from Hebrews 12:14-17, Hebrew 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-27 is a warning against apostasy. These apostates preferred sensual pleasures to heavenly inheritance. They show a form of godliness but never have come to God’s saving grace.

God Bless!

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 26 Mar 2008 6:42:25 PM Close
Some people in their hard times in life question God and fall out of grace of God. They don't wait for God to work on them. They don't patiently wait and see God is the provider. They question Him and fall out of faith.

Ezekiel:33:12,18,19

12Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

18When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

19But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

ABOVE VERSES ARE FOR EXAMPLE FOR A SAVED (RIGHTEOUS) MAN FALLING OUT OF GOD'S GRACE AND A SINNER BECOME SAVED. HIS SIN WILL NOT BE SEEN ANYMORE.

Ezekiel 33:14,15,16

14Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

15If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, WITHOUT committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

16NONE OF HIS SINS that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live


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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 7:07:18 AM Close
Dear 'sunilajoseph@aol.com,'

The salvation is an "eternal salvation." It is not conditional, beause it is free and a gift from God (Romans 6).

There is no condition that one should continue in faith to maintain the salvation, because that faith is also a gift from God (Ephesians 2).

You wrote, "They don't wait for God to work on them." --- We read about our continued yielding to God and not allowing God to work on us (Romans 6). We are asked to work and not that God trying to work and we hindering it. The work is cpompleted to perfection at the cross. "It is finsihed," was the victory shout of the Lord Jesus Christ who completed that work.

Please read Ezekiel 33:12, the Old Testament portion you quoted, before you say that the people were righteous. It tells about a man who will not be delivered by the righteousness of the righteous. That man is also said to be wicked. We should also remember that the Old Testament provides a shadow and the New Testament gives the doctrine of salvation. You are trying the wrong way, from the Old Testament to the New Testament. You should change the direction of your learning the scriptures.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 11:35:18 AM Close
Dear brethren,

A very important consideration in the establishment of this truth is the reality of new birth, or being born again. In our earthly life we never cease to be the son or daughter of our natural father. Only death severs that relationship. When he dies the one who was our father ceases to be so simply because he is no longer there. We may remember him with respect and affection, or otherwise as the case may be, but the relationship has come to an end.

When we are born again by receiving Christ by faith we become children of God. That is an eternal relationship. God cannot die and in that relationship He has given us eternal life. Our earthly life here will end, whether in death or by the rapture is immaterial, but the new relationship with our heavenly Father and the new life in Christ can never end because God Himself is its source and its sustainer by His Spirit.

Sunila Joseph's theory is shared by Jehovah's Winesses. Strangely enough I have just had a long conversation with one today, a most earnest, pleasant but utterly confused young man, and he could not seem to understand that in insisting on this error he was taking away from the value of Christ's atonement for sin. Of course he also denied the Lord's deity and that is the basic heresy that lies at the root of all opposition to God's revealed truth.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 27 Mar 2008 8:35:54 PM Close
I don't know any christian group or Jehova witness. When I opened the bible, I saw these verses and I didn't do any research. It from the word of God.

George P. Koshy didn't gave any proof from the bible that we never fall out of God's grace. Bible say we may fall out of God's grace and we may make mistake like David and Solomom did.

Salvation is eternal. That is true. That has different meaning. Do you know what God EXACTLY meant about that. I don't know. That is God's knowledge and intelligence. That is not reachable for us. It is BEYOND our imagination. So why we argue about it. The verses I showed above says we MAY fall out of God's grace. We are saved by God's grace. It is a gift from God. Salvation is a gift BY His grace. We don't deserve it. If we don't keep it up and question about it we will loose it. For those who keep the gift of God untill the end is that eternal. Others will loose it in the middle. Book of revelation says what you will get if you keep the faith untill the end. That is in eternity. Thus salvation is eternal.

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Reply by : George P. Koshy   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2008 7:53:53 AM Close
Dear 'sunilajoseph@aol.com,'

What I wrote was in connection with your posting. After quoting from Exzekiel, you wrote what was not in that quote from the Bible. If you want to hold teachings that are in error, similar to that of jehovah's Witnesses, it is your decision. Please do not bring that and expect us to accept. Brother John Miller pointed this out to you. What you saw in the Bible is not what you wrote about.

Shalom Malekim!!!

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2008 6:01:15 PM Close
Saint1,

Salvation is eternal. Salvation take us to live eternity with God. Eternity starts after New Jerusalem comes. Revelation 21.
Born again is just born in spirit. A begining of a new person. A new begining in Christ where christ spirit and our spirit come in together. It is not like a child born from his mother.
There is no 10% approval from God for you to sin after born again. It is a stict law that you can NOT sin. You are born again. You are a new creature.

Could you please tell me which verse tells you your future sins are covered when you believe in Jesus Christ. Ilooked through your refferals, but I couldn't find it.

Those who hear good shepherd will follow at his sound and noone could not snatch them from Jesus.
If you know how a shepherd get his sheep together and IF any one of them is lost from him, how much he is worried and try to get them back. Jesus said after he leave (after his resurection) wolves will come in our midst to destroy us. That's why he send holy spirit to lead us.

HEBREWS:6:4-6

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

SEE this verse

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

That verse says a new creation has come in that person. It is not saying that person's new sin is covered.

Your quot.....To think God will unborn your spirit and send you to hell after you've accepted Christ as your own personal Savior, is a complete LIE:...

I DIDn't say that lie. I said salvation makes as a new person in Christ and it will lead us to live in eternity with God, if you didn't fall out of God's grace. If you mock at Jesus Christ after you once knew about


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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 28 Mar 2008 6:06:22 PM Close
If you mock at Jesus Christ (making holy spirit to sorrow by not believing in Him) after you once knew about Him and question God you will fall out of God's grace which is we are saved by His grace. That is the best sin you can ever make. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DON SIN. Without holyness you will not see God in eternity.

I want to hear something from you.

Let me say from the bible: Wages of sin is death. Fear of God is the begining of wisdom and fools despise wisdom and instruction.

So I will say, that is why so many people do not believe this.

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 8:29:24 PM Close
Saint1,

Bible says, "renew His spirit within you". That's what I believe. At the time of born again we are born in spirit, we have to reach the maturity, for that we must renew in His spirit every day. We have to ask for forgiveness for the unknown sin we made each day by falling in the trap of satan.

Today at my work one customer came to my window and said he is Jesus and all the rest of us are having the wordly sin. He is a good looking man around 40-50 yrs age, has Jusus' picture like hair and beard. Satan is coming straight to me and talking to me.

So we will fall in to Satan's trap anytime. We are in the world. We may loose faith as well. I believe when accepting Jesus christ as my saviour, He forgave all my sins I have done untill then. He will not remember my sins anymore. Past sins has no chance to come into my mind to make me guilty again. It is forgiven. If you ask me the question, "Do you believe your future sins are forgiven?" I will say I have decided I don't do any sins anymore. I don't do anything from my part which God do not like. I don't cheat myself and God for worldly pleasures. I am not worried about my future sins.Because it is not happened yet. I will make sure not to happen.There are chances to do sins. I decided that will not happen from me. I am always willing to renew my spirit in Him.

I didn't find a verse that your future sins are covered or the sins you are going to do is no more remembered even if it has not yet happened.

That is the verse I am looking for. If somebody finds it let me know.

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 8:42:48 PM Close
Saint1,

You were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14)

"You are sealed in Him with the Holy spirit" is a deep subject. I have read about it in a book, "soul, spirit and body". I forgot the author. I cannot explain it in here. It is very deep. I don't want to discuss it.

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 9:00:36 PM Close
Saint1,
Are we allowed to do sin? Then why there is future sins? I cannot grasp it.

Galations 5:16-25

16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

ABOVE VERSE MAKES ME TO ASK YOU A QUESTION .
If we live in spirit there is no chance to think about future sins. Then From where does future sins come from? Is it so God didn't tell about future sins? He said about renew in His spirit. He didn't say future sins. I am saying because I didn't find that verse.

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Reply by : gys   View Profile   Since : 31 Mar 2008 9:17:57 PM Close

Complacency in attitude and excessive hope that "once saved always saved", might lead to committing sins, while at the same time, the interpretation that salvation can be lost undermines the efficacy of the blood of Christ and his own words that say that he grants eternal life once saved. I sometimes question myself, except that we live in hope that Christ saved us, what difference actually it makes in the lives of believing Christians about these variations in beliefs? Does the Bible speak two versions or is it lacuna on the part of scholars to understand the Bible clearly?

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 1 Apr 2008 9:05:07 AM Close
Dear "Saint1"

I am sure that you are clear about the truth of Christ's atonement in your own mind but the opening remark in the last paragraph of your most recent contribution might be misconstrued.

In any discussion on this most holy of subjects we must be marked by the utmost reverence. The Lord Jesus atoned for sin and sins during the three hours of darkness on the cross. During that time He was forsaken by God the Father, was made sin and suffered for sin. In the first three hours on the cross His sufferings were for righteousness sake. These sufferings were the demonstration to men and angels of the intrinsic perfection of our Lord and Saviour. "When reviled He reviled not again".

His life here was the portrayal of sinless perfection in thought, motive, word and deed but in its perfection only exposed the imperfections of all with whom he came in contact. It was not in any way a sacrifice or offering for a single sin. It is the perfect pattern for every blood-bought child of God, but imitating it does not bring a sinner one inch nearer salvation.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : johnmiller   View Profile   Since : 1 Apr 2008 10:08:00 AM Close
Dear brethren,

I feel burdened that there should be disputes among us or lack of clarity with any about the absoluteness of Christ's atonement for sin. Once we have received Christ all our sins are forgiven, past present and future. Those who suggest that there is some possibility of being "saved today and lost tomorrow" do not rightly appreciate the perfection of the Redeemer and the value of the price He paid.

This is a completely separate issue from sin in the life of a believer. If we fall away from the path of following Christ and the teaching of God's word, we do so to present damage but not our eternal loss. In such a course we bring the name of Jesus into disrepute, we certainly deprive ourselves of the enjoyment of personal communion with Christ, we grieve the Holy Spirit within us and we may have to face God's discipline in our lives as a result. I speak personally.

There are many examples of this in scripture. God's grace is always available for the one who confesses and repents of sin and the promise is full and free forgiveness known and experienced. This truth is set out clearly in 1 John 1:5-10. The great Apostle Paul, specially chosen and equipped by God for such distinguished service, details his anguish and the conflict in his own heart in the battle between the old nature and the new life within himself in Romans ch.7. At the end of Ch.8 he reaches the grand conclusion that nothing "shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, our Lord".

It is foolish for anyone of us to say that we are exempt from such conflict, but it in no way undermines or casts doubt on the eternal efficacy of the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Your brother in Christ,

John

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 1 Apr 2008 5:14:39 PM Close
Saint1,
Thank you for your postings.

Quote from John Miller

,,,,,If we fall away from the path of following Christ and the teaching of God's word, we do so to present damage but not our eternal loss.,,,,,,,,,,In such a course we bring the name of Jesus into disrepute, we certainly deprive ourselves of the enjoyment of personal communion with Christ, we grieve the Holy Spirit within us and we may have to face God's discipline in our lives as a result,,,,,
''''''Once we have received Christ all our sins are forgiven, past present and future. '''''

SO THE CONCLUSION is if we make future sin we will be punished by God and with that He will forgive us, because we did the sin because we are in the world.

So can we continue in the sin thinking that God forgave my future sin? No. We have to repent, ask forgiveness to God. Tell Him to remind you your unknown sins. (Holy spirit will remind you). Once again you invite Holy Spirit for fullness.

,,,,,,

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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 1 Apr 2008 7:01:42 PM Close
unknown sin = hidden sin = sins done unknowingly.
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Reply by : sunilajoseph@aol.com   View Profile   Since : 1 Apr 2008 7:27:57 PM Close
Ephesians 5:14
14For this reason it says,
"Awake, sleeper,
And arise from the dead,
And Christ will shine on you."

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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 1 Apr 2008 10:08:13 PM Close
JUST TO PONDER UPON – Hebrew 10:1-4

1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

1. Old Covenant never makes one perfect. – Through Jesus we are perfect.

2. Old Covenant always makes guilty conscious of sins – through Jesus no more guilty conscious of sins.

3. Old Covenant deals with individual sin but Jesus dealt with the root cause of the sin, which is sin nature itself.

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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2008 2:37:24 PM Close
Ephesians 2:8-9 states that the BASIS of our salvation is grace-that is, God's undeserved, unmerited favor towards us as expressed in providing redemption through Christ Jesus. So we are saved "by grace through faith."

Paul preached the grace of God as no one else recorded in scripture. Paul had stated God's grace in such way that it was inevitable that someone would ask, "Can we just keep on sinning since we are saved by grace?" This led many people to slander him and his teaching by accusing him of encouraging people to sin. Of course, that is not what Paul was saying at all. In Rom. 3:8, Rom. 6:1, & Romans 6:15 making a total of three times in this epistle he had to overcome misunderstandings about his grace teaching encouraging sin. Paul spoke this revelation of God's grace under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost with perfect balance, yet he was still misunderstood.

Therefore, anybody teaching grace who does not encounter the same arguments and have to explain that they are not advocating a life of sin, has not preached grace the way that Paul did. If, in our efforts to prevent misuse, we present grace in such a way that no one ever accuses us of giving people a license to sin, then we haven't presented grace correctly. . Paul further confirms that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lust (Ti. 2:11-12). Here, Paul shows his total rejection of those allegations by explaining it further.

Paul had so convincingly proven salvation by grace that there was not any theological argument left against it. Yet, the most common complaint against grace is not theological. It concerns the practical application. Most people can't handle grace because they think, "If I'm saved by grace, then why resist sin?" Paul answers this question in two ways in Rom 6. First, Christians don't live a life of sin because they are dead to sin. This is the point Paul is making in verses 1-14.

.... 2...

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Reply by : sajimaniyatt   View Profile   Since : 2 Apr 2008 2:38:16 PM Close
...2...
Secondly, although God is not imputing our sins unto us, Satan is. Beginning with verse 15, Paul clearly states that sin is an inroad of the enemy into our lives.

Therefore, Paul states that sin is still deadly and something to be resisted but he changes the motivation for living holy. No longer do we resist sin to try and be accepted with God but we live holy because our nature has been changed and because actions of sin give place to the devil.

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Reply by : thomasba   View Profile   Since : 5 Apr 2008 2:07:00 AM Close
Dear sajimaniyatt,

I happened to observe about grace "that is, God's undeserved, unmerited favor towards us". Based on light I recieved about the subject of grace I have started a new post. See, if it is adding value to understand grace, in different light also.

There I indicated,

1)Grace is what God is doing for us when we totally or fully depend on Him
2)Grace is what God is doing for us when we are totally helpless

If these statements are true, then we can understand usage of sin and grace in Romans. For example Rom 5:20 "But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more" [NKJV]. When sin became more clear to man, man became all the more aware of his helplessness. Here god's grace abounded, to one who realised about his helpless state. This grace was sufficient enough, to rescue him out of the situation, for he depended on God all the more. Grace abounds as we trust God more and depend on God more. This trust and dependance removes sin from our life.

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Reply by : thisisjohn   View Profile   Since : 8 Apr 2008 8:09:21 AM Close
hi i will give a small example

just imagin a room wall, and move near to that wall and put ur whole wait on wall, now this wall acts like a support medium and it hold ur whole wait. just move from that wall to a small apart. now ur away from that wall, now u have no support. that wall is stll there but ur away from that.
like this; God is always with us, but we r moving from him, He is still there but AER WE?

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Reply by : tfh777   View Profile   Since : 16 Dec 2008 7:51:23 PM Close
It is not a matter of can it be lost. It is a choice all your life. You can give it up and back to God. The bible clearly shows that God wants our love and its all based on that. God will not send you to hell nor will he force you into heaven.
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